Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

[tailspin21]

Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them!
So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

8 seems so young to go off into a changing room on their own, not just because of how vulnerable they are but also just silly things like them loosing clothes and being generally unaware of the world.
Personally I would not care at all about an 8 year old little boy being in the changing rooms! if I did feel uncomfortable id use a cubicle.
I would rather the child be safe over my discomfort.
I think 10 is a more appropriate age but again it depends on the child.

Unaccompanied girls are less safe in a space that allows older boys in. 9 or 10 is definitely not a ‘young child’. Children very naturally start to want privacy from the other sex after a certain age, it’s not just a ‘silly want’ that should be dismissed.

safeguarding male children is something that 'isnt womens problem to sort out'

I don't think this is what this statement means.Of course it is an issue for the mother of a boy who does not want him to use male changing rooms alone. But this does not mean that this should be made an issue for the women and girls in their sex-segregated changing room. Don't want him in mens - ask the pool for family space.

I'm glad our local pools have unisex changing villages.

It's not right that there is no safe space for young boys to change and be supervised, but this shouldn't come at the expense of the privacy of women and girls either.

[quote AudacityBaby]@branleuse I can't quote your posts for some reason, but yes, as a 9 year old girl with breasts who was struggling to understand why she was suddenly being sexualised, I would have stopped swimming if I had had to share a changing room with an 8 year old. 8 year old boys that I went to school with would sexualise their peers. I was very, very uncomfortable around them.

I realise that you don't care, and I also realise that you'd be unable to go swimming if your son had to use the facilities made for him. Luckily, though, for you and your DS, you can simply nick someone else's space so no need to consider quitting swimming. Wouldn't have been an option for me, and isn't an option for other girls like me, but hey, as long as you're alright.[/quote]
how would they sexualise you through the wall of the cubicle, but not when you were in the pool together in your swimming cossies?
Its sad that so many girls give up sport when they hit adolescence. I absolutely do not believe that this is related to mothers still supervising their boys in their own private cubicles.

Is it worth mentioning that I wont go to my local spa as i cant cope with the communal changing room even though its women only.

When my daughter used to do swimming lessons at school, all the girls hated having to change in front of their friends and would make each other turn away and close their eyes etc. Privacy, dignity and communal changing rooms do not go together. Safety is far more important, and if you honestly cannot see that then I dont think we are ever going to be on the same page.

I've read this thread with interest. I can still remember feeling really uncomfortable at around 7 years old if there were boys of the same age or older in the women's changing rooms and trying to figure out ways of putting my knickers on without showing anything. My mum would hold the towel up but would often stop paying attention and let it slip and then say things like 'no one is looking' when I protested. I sometimes think people can be too dismissive of children's desire for bodily privacy because they are 'just children'. But actually, young children's rights to privacy should be respected, no matter whether the adults around them think the reasons are silly or that they are being oversensitive.

I didn't want privacy as a young girl because I was worried about predators or that men or boys would be looking at me sexually. I wanted privacy because it didn't feel dignified to be exposed in front of males. It doesn't really matter WHY children want privacy IMO- if they want it, they should get it.

Boys aged around 8 or above should not be in women's changing rooms full stop. I'm not suggesting for a moment that they would be predatory, but that young girls need to feel comfortable to change with dignity.

That said, I think the risk to young boys changing in the men's alone is very real too. Males with a sexual interest in children are not as uncommon as I thought, and I'm sure that PP are correct in saying that places where children are likely to be undressed would be a place people like that would choose to go. That doesn't mean that it's ok for boys to use women's facilities. Really, it should be a requirement that these places provide additional changing spaces where children of both sexes can change in safety with their parents without sacrificing single-sex provision. Until then, I suppose the only options are those suggested by PPs- onesies, hooded towels etc.

@Marvellousmadness where is that?

Yeah, I love how the people saying that they had stopped, or their daughters have or would have stopped going swimming are lying. Because of course, when we are centering boys, the opinions and experiences of women must always be dismissed.

There was a good post upthread from a teacher saying that it all starts about Y3 (not in UK have no idea what age that is) and that is when schools generally start separating them for changing. Which seems sensible.

Knowing how my friend's sons faff about getting changed (before and after swimming) that was always my take on why anyone wouldn't want to send them into the men's alone or as a pair: you'd be waiting for ages. But it seems there are sexual predator concerns too, so what is the solution?

The solution, i think, are unisex changing areas with lockable cubicles. Additionally with family and accessible facilities for those who need them. And i think this should be doable if there was a bit of cash to convert existing changing rooms (eg mens to family & accessible spaces, womens to unisex). But there probably isn't the cash etc.

Realistically, then, how long is it before boys can safely go into the men's changing room? are we talking 5 years or more? because that also seems a long time to be stuffing them into onsies and so on, poolside, for them to get showered/changed at home. And the answer cannot be: use the women's/girls' facilities.

9 year old boys can still be abused, mine was. A 9 year old boy in the company of his mother is not a threat. Safety trumps discomfort 10fold. No mother should be putting their child in danger because of an internet thread. If you don’t feel comfortable you go with what you think is best to keep your child safe, end of.

8 is the cut off IMO, except if the place has a specific rule in place

@SausageSizzle

The rules here are boys are only allowed until age 5. And I feel that is already pushing it...

Pushing it ? So you'd be ok with 3 and 4 year olds changing by themselves in the male changing-room? Wow.

5 is too young.... I think 7/8 is a good age. Like another poster I also started puberty at about 9, which is young. So just before that is a good age

My niece just started going out into town. We’ve talked to her about staying safe by not being alone, having lids for drinks, sharing her location on her phone so we can track her if we are worried, she has a rape alarm, she wears shoes she can run in. Why the fuck does she have to be so safety conscious and make all these changes to keep herself safe from danger. But when it’s the other way round it’s still our problem. I don’t want your son in the changing room with me for various reasons - I’m a teacher in my local area, I don’t want a boy from my class walking in when I don’t suspect it, your innocent little boy is different with his friends, they make rude jokes, they tell each other what they’ve seen. I have the human right to privacy so that I don’t end up being discussed. I don’t want my 9 year old to be taught to accept she has to feel uncomfortable because a boys feelings and safety is more important than hers. I don’t want to live in a world that accepts males are a problem and we do fuck all about it.

I would have stopped doing a hobby I enjoyed, using facilities that were there for me to use, because you'd decided to co-opt them for your son

And the alternative is, a boy has to get changed poolside under a big towel, or give up the thing he loves because apparently at 8 he is a sexual predator.

it is actually the same as the trans thing.

Yes and the answer is the same, have separate spaces so all groups are catered for.

It wont change though.

Not whilst people are intent on arguing pedantically about definitions of sex and gender and male and female, screaming about MY RIGHTS instead of coming together and agreeing an easy solution which works for all.

8 is still pretty young. I think my DS was 10 before he started using men’s public toilets alone.

Safety trumps discomfort 10fold.

So mums should be able to go in the men’s with their sons. The safety of the male child trumps the discomfort of men and boys who want single sex changing.

This sounds silly, but if you and him are not comfortable with him using the men's changing rooms, could you not just frogmarch him through the open bit with a towel over his head? 😁

LoveGoldberg

Well said. So totally get this.

a 9 year old boy in the company of his mother is not a threat
I disagree. What if the mum is getting changed in a cubicle or using the loo? Realistically she won’t keep eyes on him all the time. And even if she does, what makes you think he couldn’t abuse girls/women? Grabbing them for example, or taking pictures. This is not just «discomfort»

This is so difficult. I'm a single parent, my two DS used to get changed in the men's at swimming lessons, but they were together so I was less concerned about the risk of predators (safety in numbers), although these used to mess about and take ages. Our other pool with the slides, etc, has a village style changing area so it wasn't a problem there.

I'm well aware that young girls find it really embarrassing to get changed in front of boys (and even in front of other girls). Swimming pools really need to address this issue and provide cubicles rather than open changing areas so everyone can get changed in privacy. I

In absence of this, I think it's down to parents to find alternatives and get young boys to towel off on the pool side and change at home, which isn't really ideal, but probably the only real option.

I imagine adult males (without young daughters they care for) rarely give any thought to toilets and changing rooms.

It’s sad isn’t it that the issue here is risk from adult males ( as I’m understanding that most reluctance for boys to use male changing is about risk rather than inability to change alone) and yet I haven’t seen any suggestions, and can’t think of any suggestions, of things they could do to address the issue.

No suggestions from me. Just a sad observation.

@LoveGoldberg

My niece just started going out into town. We’ve talked to her about staying safe by not being alone, having lids for drinks, sharing her location on her phone so we can track her if we are worried, she has a rape alarm, she wears shoes she can run in. Why the fuck does she have to be so safety conscious and make all these changes to keep herself safe from danger. But when it’s the other way round it’s still our problem. I don’t want your son in the changing room with me for various reasons - I’m a teacher in my local area, I don’t want a boy from my class walking in when I don’t suspect it, your innocent little boy is different with his friends, they make rude jokes, they tell each other what they’ve seen. I have the human right to privacy so that I don’t end up being discussed. I don’t want my 9 year old to be taught to accept she has to feel uncomfortable because a boys feelings and safety is more important than hers. I don’t want to live in a world that accepts males are a problem and we do fuck all about it.

The answer is a curfew for men. Once men start getting inconvenienced by male violence then the good men will speak out. Which is what we all need to happen.

Men calling each other out on their behaviour is the way forward.

@LoveGoldberg

So is your daughter going to be safer at night if my 8 year old DS is forced to change in a room of strange men? If he then becomes a victim it is ok because......well no sorry why is it ok?

We are talking about children here not fucking nightclubs so get a grip.

@Fa11Forward

9 year old boys can still be abused, mine was. A 9 year old boy in the company of his mother is not a threat. Safety trumps discomfort 10fold. No mother should be putting their child in danger because of an internet thread. If you don’t feel comfortable you go with what you think is best to keep your child safe, end of.

So you do what PPs have suggested, go to the pool beach ready and buy a dry robe for afterwards. Then your son won't have to go to the men's on his own and girls keep their space. What is so difficult to understand?

@LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee

a 9 year old boy in the company of his mother is not a threat I disagree. What if the mum is getting changed in a cubicle or using the loo? Realistically she won’t keep eyes on him all the time. And even if she does, what makes you think he couldn’t abuse girls/women? Grabbing them for example, or taking pictures. This is not just «discomfort»

Are you actually serious?? Christ on a bike this thread is bonkers.

*sorry neice