Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

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Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them!
So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

@LoveGoldberg that is something we need to be teaching them not to do, and that is one of the most important lessons we need to be teaching our sons. That everyone is to be respected and you don’t joke about/talk about a girl’s body (either clothed or naked) to their mates. No matter how old they are.

@PleasantBirthday

Public swimming pools in particular I guess need to find a better solution, as of course gyms are generally 18+ and kids dont tend to use clothes changing rooms, but until they do...

They won't though, will they? Because women and girls will do what they always end up doing and making space regardless of how they feel about it and they will be shamed into not making a fuss. And so why would any facility care enough to do something about it?

I dont know. I think most places are doing a unisex section more and more now due to issues like this. Womens spaces have pretty much always since they were invented, also been places for women to bring their children if they were still of an age to still need close supervision. This isnt new and I really hope this doesnt change.

Clearly women arent "shamed" into not making a fuss, considering the fuss so many people are making

We wonder why so many girls become disengaged from activity as they get older but surely thinks like not feeling comfy in the changing rooms are going to play a part in that?

Young women need to know that their right to dignity and privacy is being protected.

My son is 10, but has ASD and there's no way he'd be able to cope changing alone. We use the family cubicles wherever possible, but if they are full I use the disabled room - because he is. And that is why we are there. I sometimes get a look, but I'm more than used to that! I wouldn't take him into the ladies as it's inappropriate IMO as him being there could make a female uncomfortable, because whilst I know that he is emotionally very young for his age, they don't and he doesn't look young at all.

We also, incidentally, pay a fortune for our gym to enable us to do this. DH works relatively late hours so cannot always join us, though he takes DS into the male changing rooms if he does go.

I don’t think anyone believes girls don’t matter. I certainly don’t feel that way, I just feel that both girls and boys matter and deserve a safe space for changing. Child safeguarding is everyone’s business and both girls and boys need to be considered.

Wow. The rules here are boys are only allowed until age 5. And I feel that is already pushing it...
Cubicles is the way to go if you don't trust your kid by himself really

@KatharinaRosalie. My ds is 13... obviously he uses men's loos and changing rooms. At 13 he is physically larger and stronger than at 8. He also has an increased awareness of what constitutes suspicious behaviour. He also has far better judgement in how to extract himself from a situation which is making him uncomfortable.

I think it's clear that open sexed spaces actually don't work for alot of people. We should just have mixed secure spaces.

Protecting girls privacy shouldn't come at the sacrifice of boys safety.

I don't see the issue with toilets though, you're not changing your tampon by the sinks are you, what difference does a boy being there make?

I think the OP, who seems to have disappeared, got what she needed from their thread.

It really wouldn't bother me if he was up to age 12 in the women's changing rooms. As long as he wasn't outright staring at naked women and that he was respectful and kept to himself. I speak as someone who knew of a young boy who was sexually assaulted by a man in the gents toilets in a supermarket

The voice of reason.

@Marvellousmadness

Wow. The rules here are boys are only allowed until age 5. And I feel that is already pushing it... Cubicles is the way to go if you don't trust your kid by himself really

You think a five year old is pushing it...he's barely out of toddlehood FFS.

@sirzy I hated changing in front of anyone, so that puts me off anywhere that only has single sex communal changing areas. Will always use a cubicle if there is one or change in the loo!

Whilst the feminists on this board are very vocal about male violence to other men not being womens problem it is a mothers problem.

Apologies I haven't rtft but this statement struck me. I have an 8 year old DS, there is no way on earth I would send him alone into a male only changing room. I dislike how lots of people are totally ok with a male child being in potential danger, like it is only girls who are prey for sexual deviants.

When I am picking DS and DD up from swimming I throw them in onesies and bring them home that way. If DH comes with me then we can take each into the appropriate changing rooms.

@Marvellousmadness

Wow. The rules here are boys are only allowed until age 5. And I feel that is already pushing it... Cubicles is the way to go if you don't trust your kid by himself really

What? You think a 4 year old is perfectly fine undressing around naked men?

@branleuse I can't quote your posts for some reason, but yes, as a 9 year old girl with breasts who was struggling to understand why she was suddenly being sexualised, I would have stopped swimming if I had had to share a changing room with an 8 year old. 8 year old boys that I went to school with would sexualise their peers. I was very, very uncomfortable around them.

I realise that you don't care, and I also realise that you'd be unable to go swimming if your son had to use the facilities made for him. Luckily, though, for you and your DS, you can simply nick someone else's space so no need to consider quitting swimming. Wouldn't have been an option for me, and isn't an option for other girls like me, but hey, as long as you're alright.

It's a tricky one. I'd not want my son going into the men's on his own but if there were other boys with their dads in their I'd probably feel ok. You just never know who is around, that's the trouble.

The rules here are boys are only allowed until age 5. And I feel that is already pushing it...

Pushing it ? So you'd be ok with 3 and 4 year olds changing by themselves in the male changing-room? Wow.

I forgot to mention that my son always went in a cubicle in the ladies changing room and never actually came into contact with any naked women due to the set up of our changing rooms. Also, I speak as a 53 year old woman and I can appreciate that young girls may be uncomfortable with boys in the changing room. When my son eventually went to the gents loo alone I waited outside the door and he first checked no one else was in there then I waited outside and watched who went in. I've actually opened the door and shouted to see if he's OK. I suppose I am paranoid, it's because of the sex attack on the young boy we knew.

If I had an 8/9yr old boy I'm afraid he would NOT be alone in the mens changing rooms! Absolutely not. There are far too many dodgy men out there! Yes, I know there's dodgy women too, but if in women's changing rooms then any son I may have would be with me.
Does your pool not have a set of family changing rooms? Ours has 6 separate rooms just off reception. Each room accommodating one family and there's 2 cubicles inside for privacy from each other.

I also have never been in a changing room where anyone walks around naked, its always cubicles. I don't want to be looking at anyones bits male or female.

My son was sexually abused in a men’s toilet I was standing outside of. He is still getting therapy for it at 18 and his life has been pretty much turned upside down with anxiety and depression because of it. Always, always go with your gut instinct as a mum and forget everything else. Don’t bother with these threads.

@LittleGwyneth

Do the people who feel that boys should be in the female changing rooms have a sense of what the cut off should be? Presumably people agree we do need a cut off at some point?

id say that certainly secondary school age should be a cut off point if we are talking strict rule, and I think around the age of 8 or 9 should be a guideline to aim for, but whilst being realistic that it isnt going to be appropriate for all children to be unsupervised and that you also wont be privy to the reasons for this. Also when it comes to children who are pre-puberty, the issue is more about behaviour and safety.

if they changed it all to communal unisex changing then you are still going to have little boys in the cubicals near you, except this is going to be older boys and men too, so will you really feel better about that?

It really wouldn't bother me if he was up to age 12 in the women's changing rooms

Have you asked how 12-year old girls feel about that?

Sweetpeas, are women accusing unknown men of being sexual predators? Well, potentially, yes, of course!

How would you tell? Why would you trust that any man in a changing room - Men's, Women's or Unisex - was 100% safe around your child? He very probably is just a nice guy changing for a swim but if he is a predatory paedophile, he isn't going to wear a sign around his neck or make an announcement, is he? If you were offered a box of chocolates and told that one of them might just be poisonous but there was no way of knowing whether or which, would you shrug and eat them? And if someone mocked you and said you were being ridiculous/paranoid/over-reacting/demonising chocolatiers, would you allow yourself to be silenced and eat them up with a smile?

This thread is about how we keep little boys safe without compromising single-sex spaces for women and girls; it's not about demonising men. The bad'uns among them do that themselves, sadly. And we know that predatory men go out of their way to target places where their intended victims are especially vulnerable. It's as tempting as a sweetshop to them.

You can't ignore that the overwhelming majority of sexual assaults and literally all the rapes are carried out by men, can you?

Can you?!

It's just cubicles at our swimming pool, I still take my 12 year old girl and boy twins in the women's and they have a cubicle each side of me

As I stated before, my son didnt use the female changing rooms after 8. We just ceased swimming at a pool that didnt cater for us with a family zone.

But i do find the idea that safeguarding male children is something that 'isnt womens problem to sort out' because adult men are the risk a bit offensive. You are going to have an uphill struggle persuading mums that safeguarding their male children is nothing to do with them, its all the responsibility of unknown adult men or a child.

I also think some of the ideas about rape alarms or making a fuss are misguided. An 8 year old isnt going to feel threatened or know even that they are being photographed or groomed. Thats one of the main points of a single sex space. If someone is in there that shouldnt be its an instant warning but tge boys dont get that early warning system.

I totally agree about girls dignity and safety and think third spaces are perfect for this situation and should be compulsory.