Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

[tailspin21]

Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them!
So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

why isnt the safety of children everybodies issue? I dont expect random women to care more about my daughter than my son. This thread is no way about litttle girls dignity or feelings and everything to do with the wider issue of men taking over womens stuff, and I really think thats a much bigger and valid issue that should NOT be conflated with little boys right to be supervised by their own mothers when getting changed in public changing rooms.
No i dont want men winning womens places. no I dont want men in womens toilets. No I dont want men on womens wards. Yes I do want women to have the right to supervise their prepubescent boys changing.
Of course its awkward to have "the chat" with kids about keeping safe around men, while still not making them terrified.
Public swimming pools in particular I guess need to find a better solution, as of course gyms are generally 18+ and kids dont tend to use clothes changing rooms, but until they do, my absolute priority is my own childrens safety, and then second priority is your kids safety, and then random peoples embarrassment and outrage is further down the priority list. Not saying it shouldnt be considered, but its lower down the list than safety.

That's not women's problem to sort out

Well, since the problem only arises when an adult woman takes her young male children swimming, it strikes me as being mostly a women's problem. After all, the woman accompanying the boys is responsible for ensuring their safety, which she can't do if they're alone in the men's. So she is the one tasked with finding a solution. It's not for an 8 year old boy to ensure that they are not assaulted by a paedophile because they're alone by themselves in the men's changing rooms. Children aren't responsible for protecting themselves against male violence.

@Rainbowqueeen

Yes he should be in the mens now.

If you are not comfortable with that it is up to you to come up with a different plan that does not involve him coming into the women’s change rooms. Eg arrive at pool in bathers, dressing gown on after swimming and go home to change, petition the pool fit family change rooms

This.

My 8 yr old son looked about 12 - mega tall. He was as vulnerable as an 8 yr old girl. I had Mums harassing me from the age of 5 that he needed to be in the mens. ( Really vile and nasty)

Thank fully for me one of the Dads in the swim group who brought his daughter and son came up with an arrangement. In his words - you do not want him in there alone. I took his daughter and he took my son.

My son deserved the same respect and protection that any 8 yr old girl deserved. Single cubicles is a simple answer but the vitriol on here that boys do not deserve the same protection as girls - totally misses the point of sexual predators.

At 13, he looks 18+ and is capable of defending himself. He now points out the "weirdos" who are in the mens changing rooms and takes some of the smaller boys under his wing - does not leave till they are changed and checks on them. ( Am quite proud of him - done of his own volition) Some of those weirdos were around when he was 8.

So your view is "i dont care about the risk to your young son of being unsupervised and naked in an adult male changing room in case it makes my daughter feel awkward to be close to a boy getting changed IN A CUBICLE WITH HIS MUM.
I dont care whether you decide to go swimming or not tbh. Im not suggesting you dont go swimming. Im suggesting you pay attention to your own business and leave others to get on with theirs. Maybe get a sense of perspective to the risks

I don't have a daughter. I was an early-developer, though, and if you had been in my changing room with your DS I would have stopped swimming. I would have stopped doing a hobby I enjoyed, using facilities that were there for me to use, because you'd decided to co-opt them for your son. It's not awkwardness. I can remember every single time, as a 9 year old, that a peer at school pinged my bra strap or poked my chest and laughed. That stuff lives with you. Everyone acting like 8+ year old boys are innocent lambs who don't even know what a girl is, are kidding themselves. They're not predators, but this isn't just about girls feeling a wee bit odd - it's about dignity and respect.

You did suggest that anyone who didn't like your son being where he isn't supposed to be should just not go swimming, and it's clear that that doesn't bother you in the least. Mind my business? It's a space for girls and women! How would it not be my business?

I care about the safety of young boys. I agree that they need better facilities. Better facilities. Not to nick the ones that already exist, at the expense of those they are designed for. Please, for God's sake, campaign for those facilities.

Public swimming pools in particular I guess need to find a better solution, as of course gyms are generally 18+ and kids dont tend to use clothes changing rooms, but until they do...

They won't though, will they? Because women and girls will do what they always end up doing and making space regardless of how they feel about it and they will be shamed into not making a fuss. And so why would any facility care enough to do something about it?

It’s really difficult. I have 3 boys and avoid places where they don’t have family changing areas because sending a young boy into a male changing room alone is putting them into a vulnerable position. I understand why there is the rule for over 8’s and girls and women having the right to single sex spaces but equally feel that boys should be protected too.

We have a unisex changing area. It’s full of Mums with their sons, occasionally Dad with younger than 8 years old daughters.
The ladies changing area is mums with their daughters, & girls over 8ish on their own. When my girls where younger they didn’t feel comfortable changing near boys (especially when they went to school with them) The worse is when the mother brings their older boys in the girls changing room sorting out a younger child …my 9 year old felt very exposed while her 10 year old son sat staring! He could have sat outside the door or they should have used the unisex area.

Now it depends to me what sort of lesson it is. You said he can't swim so I appreciate you want to be in with him. However he is almost 9, if like to think that is sensible enough to know not to jump into deep end etc.

For example where I am (not UK) it depends on the swimming class. Ones learning to swim go accompanied but once they have passed bronze they change themselves. My son passed bronze just as he was turning 6 and I found it very young.

If it is swim lessons is the pool open to the public anyway? If not I don't see the issue let him go to men's by himself

@HaveringWavering

I find it really really sad that so many people think that a men’s changing room in a swimming pool is “just not safe” for an eight year old boy whose Mum is outside. Do you really believe that there is a paedophile lurking round every corner, and that they would prey on a young boy in full view of other men? What a sad, paranoid perspective in society. I blame the Sun.

No I don’t think paedophiles are lurking round every corner, but I do know that children have been assaulted by men in toilets and changing rooms, no doubt thousands or probably tens of thousands of times. So it’s not something I’m going to risk. Being assaulted as a teenager ruined my life, there’s no way I’m putting my child at risk of that. I do everything I can to avoid it, I don’t even let extended family members be alone with my DC. I know it’s rubbish to be so “paranoid” I hate it, but it’s not something I can change.

Would it work for him to go into the toilets? Maybe arrive with trunks on already so doesn’t have to do much then after, a quick towel dry in the toilets

@Bingomangoes

Horrible isn't it, he probably has to go in the men's but make it as quick as possible with swimming stuff on already under clothes and hoodie towel thing to go home in. Reminds me of taking my 6yr old DS into the ladies, two older women audibly muttering (specifically for me to hear) about how violated they felt and he shouldn't be in there and how they had to cover up now. I couldn't help it and had to say "my son is 6.5years old he has absolutely no interest in naked women (hadn't so much as glanced in their direction) and is just really happy to be going swimming" Ruined my day though. Couldn't work out why they thought my 6yr old son would be any more interested in their nakedness than my 9yr old daughter who was also with me.

How ridiculous. Honestly, any woman who has a issue with a six year old boy in the same loos or changing rooms must have serious issues

@AudacityBaby

*So your view is "i dont care about the risk to your young son of being unsupervised and naked in an adult male changing room in case it makes my daughter feel awkward to be close to a boy getting changed IN A CUBICLE WITH HIS MUM. I dont care whether you decide to go swimming or not tbh. Im not suggesting you dont go swimming. Im suggesting you pay attention to your own business and leave others to get on with theirs. Maybe get a sense of perspective to the risks*

I don't have a daughter. I was an early-developer, though, and if you had been in my changing room with your DS I would have stopped swimming. I would have stopped doing a hobby I enjoyed, using facilities that were there for me to use, because you'd decided to co-opt them for your son. It's not awkwardness. I can remember every single time, as a 9 year old, that a peer at school pinged my bra strap or poked my chest and laughed. That stuff lives with you. Everyone acting like 8+ year old boys are innocent lambs who don't even know what a girl is, are kidding themselves. They're not predators, but this isn't just about girls feeling a wee bit odd - it's about dignity and respect.

You did suggest that anyone who didn't like your son being where he isn't supposed to be should just not go swimming, and it's clear that that doesn't bother you in the least. Mind my business? It's a space for girls and women! How would it not be my business?

I care about the safety of young boys. I agree that they need better facilities. Better facilities. Not to nick the ones that already exist, at the expense of those they are designed for. Please, for God's sake, campaign for those facilities.

youd have stopped swimming because an 8 year old boy was in a closed cubicle nearby with his mum, literally just existing?

As if.

no it doesnt bother me if someone who had no care about the safety issues of sending little boys in with grown men to change, made a personal choice to go swimming or not. I honestly couldnt care less who goes swimming and who doesnt, but if you really want me to start caring about the feelings of an imaginary little girl, so traumatised by being in a closed cubicle nearby to another closed cubicle with a family changing where one of the children happened to be a little boy that she had to STOP SWIMMING ENTIRELY, then I dunno. Can we go even better than this. Would it have ruined your olympic dreams?
If my son had to go into the mens changing rooms alone, then we would have also had to STOP SWIMMING.

9 is far too old to be in the Ladies changing room. Cut that umbilical cord OP!

Taking a 10 year old boy in whilst you change a younger sibling is ridiculous. No real reason the 10 year old couldn't wait outside/in the car/at home

We have this issue. I'm as concerned about him being alone in an environment with strange men, but more importantly, at 8 they're still pretty patchy at getting themselves organised in good time. I can't march in to the mens changing rooms to remind him he's swimming and not in the final of the World Cup.

Our gym has the 8yo rule but the staff don't mind him going in. Im not sure who the rule is there for. Once puberty kicks in it's a different conversation, but at eight they're still small.

Do the people who feel that boys should be in the female changing rooms have a sense of what the cut off should be? Presumably people agree we do need a cut off at some point?

After all, the woman accompanying the boys is responsible for ensuring their safety, which she can't do if they're alone in the men's.

She could go with the boys into the men’s. In order to keep the boys safe. That way it largely becomes a men’s problem.

To posters who are saying that boys safety isn't being considered, you're not listening. I have a 9 year old son. He's the light of my life and I would never put him in a potentially dangerous situation. What I'd also never do is let him into female only spaces because this isn't fair on the girls (or him, he'd be mortified). There are solutions, the dry robes, onesies etc that PPs have suggested, which whilst not ideal, are a solution to the problem of sending boys into the male changing room alone. Why aren't people listening and still insisting that we are all boy hating bastards who will happily send them into a dangerous situation?

It really wouldn't bother me if he was up to age 12 in the women's changing rooms. As long as he wasn't outright staring at naked women and that he was respectful and kept to himself. I speak as someone who knew of a young boy who was sexually assaulted by a man in the gents toilets in a supermarket. I took my son into the ladies toilets and ladies changing rooms but told him to quickly and quietly get changed and stay by my side. Most of the time he had his head in his phone anyway. Not everyone agreed with me, in fact, at a family party in a hotel, sis in law complained that he was in the ladies toilets with me and he was the grand old age of 7. I think your son will know the right time to go in the gents changing rooms himself. By the time my son was 12 and at high school, he'd have been more aware of any weirdos in the changing rooms and would have had the confidence to tell them where to go, ask for help or walk out. As a mother, I'd rather a young boy was safe in the ladies changing rooms with his mum rather than in the gents changing rooms on his own.

I can't march in to the mens changing rooms to remind him he's swimming and not in the final of the World Cup.

Why? Is it because the men in that room deserve the privacy and dignity, which comes with single sex spaces?

My daughter started to refuse to go swimming because of this issue. Eight and nine-year old girls do not want to get changed in front of boys the same age. They just don't. But I always found mums of sons didn't care.

So the mothers saying there is 'no way' they will send an 8-year old to male changing room will clearly not send them at age 9 either. Or probably 10. So where is the appropriate cut-off for you? Obviously predators also target teens, so purely from safety perspective, a 13-yo is also much safer with their mum in the women's changing room. 18?

And I really have to wonder, don't you remember anything what it was like to be a pre-teen girl and how shy and embarrassed most girls were about their bodies? If at that age I had to share changing rooms with male classmates - or even worse, assumed I was in a female-only space and suddenly had boys walking in, this would have been massively traumatising.

But no, girls don't matter and have to make allowances to everybody else.

It si actually the same as the trans thing.
It is about making girls or women uncomfortable so vulnerable boys and men can be safe.
It wont change though.

I find it really really sad that so many people think that a men’s changing room in a swimming pool is “just not safe” for an eight year old boy whose Mum is outside. Do you really believe that there is a paedophile lurking round every corner, and that they would prey on a young boy in full view of other men? What a sad, paranoid perspective in society. I blame the Sun.

I find it really concerning that some parents think male changing-rooms are a safe environment for their young boys. There are countless reported cases of boys being raped or assaulted in male toilets by adult men. Changing-rooms are an even greater risk since they will be undressed and even more vulnerable.

Yes, the likelihood is that your son will be fine, but it only takes one incident to have a child traumatised for life.