Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

[tailspin21]

Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them!
So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

I do agree that women only spaces need to be respected. I wasn’t willing to send my 8yo boys into mens changing rooms on their own, but I worked around that. We either waited until DH was with us or went to a different pool. I accept we are fortunate however as we do have council facilities with unisex changing cubicles. It is unfortunate we have to look out for our young boys in this way, but whilst I believe the chances of them being preyed upon is remote, predators so look for opportunity and for me it’s a risk I was willing to take.

Most do have a family changing cubicle thing. It isn’t about an 8yo being a predator, it is about making others feel uncomfortable which I imagine an 8/9 year old girl (some of which have started puberty) would, if there were boys their age there, whether there is cubicles or not, girls and women are entitled to a space of privacy.

Children tend to also be curious so tend to stare which again would be uncomfortable. I used to hate getting changed in front of the boys for PE in primary, and that was without being naked cause they used to stare.

My son goes into the girls' space because it's not safe for him to go elsewhere and it's vital that he goes swimming even if it means using facilities that don't belong to him. If that makes girls unsafe

It doesn't make girls unsafe. A eight year old boy with his mother is no risk to anyone else

No changing required.

But I think this thread isn’t about practical ways to get changed discreetly.

That should read ‘a risk I wasn’t willing to take’.

@AudacityBaby

*public places. If a woman or a girl feels uncomfortable with an 8 year old boy who has done nothing wrong and just wants to get changed for swimming, then I honestly and absolutely do not prioritise that over my childrens actual safety, and id no sooner send my 8 year old boy into a changing room of adult men, than i would my 8 year old daughter. if you dont like it, then dont use a public swimming pool*

So your view is...

"My son goes into the girls' space because it's not safe for him to go elsewhere and it's vital that he goes swimming even if it means using facilities that don't belong to him. If that makes girls unsafe then I don't care and they should just stop going swimming because clearly it isn't vital that they go swimming like it is for my son."

?

Jesus H Christ.

yes, i mean you can make any of it sound really loaded I guess if you try hard enough.

So your view is "i dont care about the risk to your young son of being unsupervised and naked in an adult male changing room in case it makes my daughter feel awkward to be close to a boy getting changed IN A CUBICLE WITH HIS MUM.
I dont care whether you decide to go swimming or not tbh. Im not suggesting you dont go swimming. Im suggesting you pay attention to your own business and leave others to get on with theirs. Maybe get a sense of perspective to the risks

I have boy / girl twins - I am really surprised at people who are saying at 8 its OK. I am not suggesting the OPs son is not OK - children mature at different stages - but at 8 there were loads of boys and girls in my children's classes obsessed with sexual things. Unfort its what they are being exposed to and remember the kids have sex ed in class in year 5 and there is obviously a reason the ed department thought this was the right age.
At 8 my son had other 8 year old boys sending pictures on how to put condoms on through his playstation (yes I did report), and in school the other boys were talking about touching each other in the toilets (yes I did report), and he had girls at his desk making a hole with one finger and putting their other finger through it to stimulate sex (yes I also reported as he hated it), I had one girl dared a boy to pull her knickers down and he did, another girl was telling me her dream about being pregnant and then spiders went up her vagina (her words not mine). Yes at 8 years old. My children are 15 now and they are still not ready for this sort of thing as both had delayed puberty - but it does go on at 8 unfortunately.

So what about the safeguarding of the little boy? An 8yo boy is no threat in a women's changing room, but he's potentially at risk on his own in a male changing room.

That's not women's problem to sort out

Thank you to the mothers of boys who respect female-only spaces. Your boys will grow up better men for it.

This

But making women budge up to deal with a male problem is not fair.

👏👏👏

@CatJumperTwat

Thank you to the mothers of boys who respect female-only spaces. Your boys will grow up better men for it.

My view is that in order to make the world safer for women we need boys to grow up understanding the impact that their behaviour has even if they don’t mean it to and how little sensible steps can make women feel safe.

you are saying that the privacy and dignity of girls in the changing room doesn't matter.
That is what is worrying/annoying/upsetting people on this thread.

And i can't remember the pp with the 8 year old autistic boy - we have been, for the entirety of this thread, discussing the cut-off of 8. If he's older than 8, yes, it is difficult but what you need then is family changing rooms. Not to take him in where the girls are.

It really doesn't matter if the boy's mum is there if it makes the girl uncomfortable does it? or should she just shut up and get on with it because her privacy and dignity doesn't matter because... what, his mum's there?

It doesn't make girls unsafe. A eight year old boy with his mother is no risk to anyone else

Putting safety aside do you really not give a fuck about girls' feelings?

My dc have sen so cant change them alone. I take them to the swimmers in their costumes with onsie over the top, then when they get out rub them down and out onsie back on over the wet shorts then stick a big coat on them and go home. easiest way

There discussions come up fairly regularly on MN. In the situation where there are no unisex or family changing areas, and the single sex changing applies to everyone over the age of 8, and if poolside changing isn’t an option (eg getting a bus home so need to be properly dry) there are three options:

1. send the son in to the men’s changing area alone
2. bring the son in to the women’s with his mum
3. the mum going in to the men’s changing with her son

For me, options 2 and 3 should be considered equally because in both cases you have a person going in to the opposite sex changing facility, which compromises the dignity and privacy of those correctly using their own spaces. If you as a woman wouldn’t go in to the men’s changing room then you shouldn’t be bringing your 8/9/10yo son in to the women’s.

the pool management would likely say that there are already cubicles provided for those that need/desire extra privacy.

I think the risk is that theyll just do like in my local pool, and end up making all the changing rooms unisex with cubicles and then communal area which is also mixed if people honestly are going to start freaking out about little supervised boy children existing close to supervised little girl children

God I would not want an 8 year old alone in the men's. I'd rather you swiftly get him in a cubicle and straight out to the pool so he's not hanging around but I would rather a young boy be in the womens then alone in the men's.

I don’t think a busy changing room is much of a problem, there are usually cubicles that you son can get changed in. My sons get changed in the mens now since they were 8, it’s great I don’t have to say hurry up 1000 times any more.

So what about the safeguarding of the little boy? An 8yo boy is no threat in a women's changing room, but he's potentially at risk on his own in a male changing room.

That's not women's problem to sort out

It's a wider problem in society clearly that needs dealing with. Going in the women's changing room is not ideal obviously. However, a mum of a boy in a specific moment has to make the least worse decision possible. She can't change society in the ten minutes available before a swimming lesson

If I had a boy of 8, he'd be in the male changing room.

And what about his safety? As long as the girls don't feel awkward in their space then never mind if he feels awkward or vulnerable amongst a load of strange adult men??

The comments from some posters on this thread are mind boggling. You do realise that paedos target young boys, too? That they take photos to be shared on the internet for a few quid? You'd be ok with putting your son at risk of that would you?

As a parent of both boys and girls I don't place more importance on the feelings or safety of one more than the other. And the safety of my son comes way higher up my list of worries then the outrage of random women on the internet or in a changing room.

Clearly the answer is unisex changing areas, and then male and female designated ones for those who can't bear the thought of a little boy changing with his mum - and no, they're not just waltzing in and doing what they like (as someone said) they're getting fucking dry and dressed supervised by mum.

Christ on a bike you people are hard work.

@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees

It doesn't make girls unsafe. A eight year old boy with his mother is no risk to anyone else

Putting safety aside do you really not give a fuck about girls' feelings?

do you give a fuck about little boys feelings?

What is the age we are supposed to start hating them? I thought we were generally ok with little kids. even the ones with penises!!

@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees

It doesn't make girls unsafe. A eight year old boy with his mother is no risk to anyone else

Putting safety aside do you really not give a fuck about girls' feelings?

But there's no danger to anyone involved when a young boy with his mum goes in the women's. There is danger involved with a young boy going alone into the men's.

One poster said they don’t like the idea of a 5yo boy in the female changing room. Do we have to consider her?

When COVID rules for swimming pools were first introduced and you had to arrive beach ready and not use the changing rooms after swimming, I seem to remember there was huge outrage on here about that. But now it is fine for young boys to do it.

I have very rarely taken DS swimming where there aren’t unisex cubicles, partly because I hate changing in communal areas. So haven’t had the issue of deciding where the safest/best place for him to change. (although do remember a swimming pool in Austria that seemed to be one big communal changing area for all ages and both sexes!) Do remember worrying when I had to start sending DS to the men’s loos on his own. I was that mother just standing outside the door calling out to him if I thought he had been in too long!

I totally understand people not wanting older boys in female only changing areas but do at least have a thought about how hard these decisions are for mums of young boys. Because the risks are probably higher for boys at this age and in these particular areas than they are for girls. It’s horrible that we do have to think of these things and obviously as a woman it unfortunately it is something we always have in the back of our minds but it doesn’t mean our young boys are 100% safe either.

I think the risk is that theyll just do like in my local pool, and end up making all the changing rooms unisex with cubicles and then communal area which is also mixed if people honestly are going to start freaking out about little supervised boy children existing close to supervised little girl children

well in our case our girls went unsupervised in the women's because they usually went swimming with their dad who didn't go in the women's regardless. So yeah - those girls deserve not to have boys older than 8 in there with them. Regardless of whether or not their mum is there.

Our pool changed to unisex with a family room, and it is fine.

@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees

It doesn't make girls unsafe. A eight year old boy with his mother is no risk to anyone else

Putting safety aside do you really not give a fuck about girls' feelings?

Yes of course I do but in a straight choice of one child's physical safety v one child's feelings, physical safety always comes first. Like I say, I expect the child to be strictly supervised by his mother and kept out of the way as much as it's possible.

*So what about the safeguarding of the little boy? An 8yo boy is no threat in a women's changing room, but he's potentially at risk on his own in a male changing room.

That's not women's problem to sort out*

As mothers it's absolutely our problem to protect our sons from being sexually abused by adult men. We don't only protect the children with the same genitals as us.

Yes, I guess the risk is that, if people campaign for unisex changing-rooms, they simply do away with the separate men's and women's changing-rooms altogether. Whereas ideally you would have the separate changing rooms and an additional unisex area.