Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

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Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them!
So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

[quote ImUninsultable]@Holly60

No. Not my opinion.
Child psychologist. Worked for chidline.

My educated, thought through conclusion after years of listening to girls.

It is also the widely adopted policy around leisure centres.

But since you want to discuss opinion, I will as yours.

Should an 8 year old girl have to stand naked in front of boys from her class?[/quote]
No. But I’m pretty sure the OP was about whether it was appropriate for her 8 year old little boy to accompany her into the ladies and get changed in a cubicle. I’m pretty sure there was no mention of asking a young girl to stand naked in front of him .

There must be a route to poolside that doesn't go via the changing rooms. Maybe if you arrive ready the club would let you go that way? He can wear a tracksuit over his swimmers, take it off poolside, and after the lesson towel off poolside and put it back on, then you leave the same way.

@DoubleDeckerSwimmer

id no sooner send my 8 year old boy into a changing room of adult men

But if all the boys went in there, then it wouldn't be a changing room of just adult men?

still not happening with any of my 8 year olds. I think the potential for abuse is way too high

so you are all saying, just to be clear here: girls should just put up and shut up because you can't be arsed fighting for solutions for boys?*

This, this is exactly what many poster here are saying. Girls don't matter.

Yes I understand you don't care if there's an 8-10yo boy in the changing room. A 10yo girl will care. What am I supposed to tell her, she doesn't matter?

@Branleuse

im amazed that we are projecting adult mens sexual motives onto 8 year old boys.

being able to keep our children safe IS a feminist issue. How fucking dare people try and say that little boys are invading womens spaces when going swimming with their mums. Thats absolutely insane.

How is it about sexual motives? Its about the comfort and dignity of girls and women. I wouldn't bring my 9 year old into the female changing room with me. That's not because I think he's a predator.. it's because it's a female space and as he is getting older, girls and women will begin to feel uncomfortable with him in their space. Equally, I don't trust unknown men around my son so we use family changing rooms or the unisex cubicles.

I completely understand the conundrum OP, I've had similar thoughts. I've come to the conclusion that the small private pool where my kids have lessons is OK, I'd be happier with my DS changing in the male changing room there as the only people in there are kids having swimming lessons and their dads. For the gym I'm a member of, I've resigned myself to the fact that DS won't be able to swim with me there, I'd need to take him to another local pool that has unisex cubicle changing only. Alternatively, if those aren't options, you could avoid the changing rooms altogether, buy using a towelling robe/onesie type thing afterwards. I don't think he can continue going into the women's chaning area once he's 8 though.

Why so angry? I care about girls. I am one, I have a daughter, I have grand daughters. At no point did I ever think an 8 year old boy getting changed in a cubicle (the horror!!) was any kind of threat to them.

It's really sad that there are so many girls in your life and yet you have no understanding that they deserve respect, privacy, and dignity.

[quote ImUninsultable]@Branleuse

And here we have the fundamentals of the patriarchy and misogyny.

If women and girls dont like something then they can shut up because my boy is more important.

Well done. Really. You're teaching your sons some amazing lessons. Bravo.[/quote]
Horrible, isn't it? I hope it's just a troll TBH.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

Here's a study to illustrate the safe-guarding risks of unisex spaces. And it's little boys who need to be protected, not just little girls and women.

Whatever the prevalence of predatory men and paedophiles in the general population may be, and it's probably impossible to know, we need to understand that they will be on the lookout for opportunities to offend, and that changing rooms where women and children are partially clothed or naked will provide those opportunities.

Locking cubicles sound great until you consider the possibility of a predator pushing in after a child and locking that door. If I've thought about it, a predator will have, too. Safe-guarding is about "thinking the unthinkable" and taking steps to prevent it occurring: it's not hoping for the best and dismissing the risk as being too small to concern anyone. How many assaults on children or women are too many? My answer is one.

I would be - and have been - that mother outside the Men's changing room carrying on a shouted conversation with my tween son to deter any opportunistic predator and to ease my fears. Not his - he was never worried - but then he didn't have my life experience and it was my job to keep him safe.

@Helenluvsrob

Or …. Go in kit and dressing gown / onesie type thing and wrap self in towel poolside and dry. Stick same back over swimming kit and straight to car.

This is what our gym had everyone doing at 2m spacing , poolside when they started back post Covid snd some still do ( mostly in dry robes )

This probably the most sensible suggestion here for someone concerned about managing a child of this middling age.

@ImUninsultable

I'm not sure that the girls that are there take any notice of him to be honest. We use a cubicle and as they don't demand to see his birth certificate I doubt they even realise that he is 8. There are always other boys in there as well, he's definitely not the only one.

As to what age I'll let him use the men's I'm not sure, probably when he turns 9 but the thought makes me very uncomfortable. I can see that this won't satisfy you though

I think it’s time he changed with the men. At 9 he’s no longer a baby/toddler and could be looking/staring. I’d be uncomfortable with a 9 year old boy in a ladies changing room.

So, according to this thread, girls must change with their Mums away from potential predators, and boys must change by themselves with those potential predators.

And if we don't like it we can 'campaign'?

@Branleuse
I think you've misunderstood. Lots of posts so easy to do.

No one is saying they cant go swimming with their mums. Of course that's not doing anything wrong.

It's just that when they go into a women's changing room, which is a woman's space then well, they're in a woman's space. And the women and girls in there should expect to have privacy. That is lost when mums bring their 8/9/10 year olds into a communal changing area.
Girls shouldn't have to be naked in front of them. I cant actually believe that's something I need to defend.

[quote ImUninsultable]@Branleuse

And here we have the fundamentals of the patriarchy and misogyny.

If women and girls dont like something then they can shut up because my boy is more important.

Well done. Really. You're teaching your sons some amazing lessons. Bravo.[/quote]
dont be ridiculous. Absolutely want single sex spaces for adults, but young children do not count in this as they are under the care of the parent that has brought them in. And yes I am teaching my sons and my daughter strong feminist lessons. We discuss feminist and other social issues all the bloody time, and theyre older than this now anyway, so would be going in the changing rooms according to their sex, but there is no way at 8 they would have, and I dont need to show you their disability status or answer any of your nosy questions.
A public swimming pool is public.

How fucking dare people try and say that little boys are invading womens spaces when going swimming with their mums.

well how fucking dare you expect girls to put up with boys in their changing spaces. It is a fucking MONSTEROUS liberty taken with what girls want. Typically nobody fucking cares about them. Perhaps they should go swimming with their dads?

I’m pretty sure the OP was about whether it was appropriate for her 8 year old little boy to accompany her into the ladies and get changed in a cubicle. I’m pretty sure there was no mention of asking a young girl to stand naked in front of him

nobody is asking the girls AT ALL. They are just taking away their space. In some cases taking away their option to go swimming for, say, cultural reasons. But the girls can suck it up because "wah wah precious fucking boys". It is infuriating.

If you want safe spaces for your boys ASK FOR THEM.

Wow this thread’s an eye opener! My DS is 8 and there is no way I’d send him into the men’s loos on his own, let alone changing rooms, and neither would my DH. But I do worry that I’m reinforcing a message that the group of people he will grow to be one of (adult men) are this predatory and dangerous.

Dry him off poolside, he goes in the men's changing room for maybe 5 minutes to sling on a onesie and sits for you in the reception area.

But I’m pretty sure the OP was about whether it was appropriate for her 8 year old little boy to accompany her into the ladies and get changed in a cubicle. I’m pretty sure there was no mention of asking a young girl to stand naked in front of him

It's a women's changing room. Girls and women are totally entitled to change in the changing room without using cubicles, as they should feel safe that there are no men and boys above 8 walking in. Unless the poster goes in first and warns everybody every time before her son walks in, I guess.

We're not projecting anything Branleuse. We are recognising girls' need for privacy and dignity.

My dd developed a sense of physical privacy and not wanting to change in front of men and boys at 6.

School swimming at 8 used separate changing rooms. Some of the boys tried to break into the girls' changing room - for motives best known to themselves. The girls stopped them. They did not find it funny or ok at all.

I am delighted that you do not make the rules.

Fuk that would I be sending my 8 year old into a men's changing room by himself. Family changing or cubicle. But my son is only 5 so maybe I'm associating him with my choice and will think differently in a couple of years

@ImUninsultable.

If you had actually read my posts, you would see that I expressly say the solution is not for older boys to be in the female changing area undermining girls' and women's rights to privacy. Instead, I say that other solutions - unisex changing rooms or changing at home - should be considered instead.

My point is that parents of boys (especially younger ones) changing alone need to understand that the risk of their child encountering a paedophine in the mens' changing room is not actually that small. Rates of paedophilia in the general male population are around 1 in 35 men and then of course there is the tendency of paedophiles to congregate in areas where they have access to vulnerable, undressed children separated from their parents. So the chances are that a young boy changing alone is likely to come across an adult male who has a sexual interest in children at some point. We can't just shut our eyes and pretend that won't happen.

So, yes young boys above a certain age should not be in the female changing-room, but no, that doesn't mean that they are safe in the male changing-room.

I personally would never take my DS to a pool that didn't have unisex or family changing.

8 at our gym. My son looked 8 when he was about 5! But they had a family changing room she we could all go in there. I don't think it's as much a risk in a gym changing room than, say, a public toilet. I wouldn't have any problem letting my 8 year old change in the gym one - in fact I'd be more concerned about showering and not getting all his clothes wet or leaving stuff behind!

@Peggytheredhen

It isnt all about predators. It is about privacy and dignity for women and girls. And honestly, about teaching boys that they dont get to use women's spaces or push past their boundaries.

The answer for space changing for boys just is not to use the girls changing. That's just not it.

Change poolside. Take a towel onesie and change at home. Speak to the centre.

Do not force girls to change in front if boys and say "I'm sure they're dont even care/notice".

They do. From my years and years of working with children. This is something that comes up. Girls care.

@Peggytheredhen

So, according to this thread, girls must change with their Mums away from potential predators, and boys must change by themselves with those potential predators.

And if we don't like it we can 'campaign'?

Yes.