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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Thank god we don’t live in Sweden. AIBU?

825 replies

sw1v · 27/10/2021 14:40

I was just reading in another thread that in Sweden, you are basically forced to send your babies into day care settings at the age of 1. Apparently 50% of 1 year olds are in full- time nurseries (very long days inc. parents’ commutes) and 95% by the time they are 2! Plus (unlike in the U.K.) there is apparently no minimum ratio for staff to children.

But what if you are a mother who simply doesn’t want to do this (or father)? I personally, would hate this. So how is it acceptable for ‘the state’ to be interfering in people’s personal spheres and family lives by making this ‘the societal norm.’ Is it because they are a high tax society and want more tax? Is this it? Well, it seems like an infringement on personal liberties to me (without wanting to sound too dramatic).

AIBU?

OP posts:
Original poster
sw1v · 29/10/2021 15:36

You sound unusually livid, TedMullins. That was quite a tirade from someone who didn’t even want kids.

OP posts:
Cranncat · 29/10/2021 15:38

@sw1v

You sound unusually livid, TedMullins. That was quite a tirade from someone who didn’t even want kids.
There should be a lot more of that type of anger around, rather than an unthinking acquiescence that Big Men Can't Compromise Their Big Jobs in order to parent their children.
BettyCarver · 29/10/2021 15:39

Livid to champion equality?

Okaaaay......

TedMullins · 29/10/2021 15:42

Too right I’m livid! So would you be if you opened your eyes to the rampant sexism everywhere.

Parker231 · 29/10/2021 15:47

I’m livid that there are men who don’t parent their children and don’t give their partners the opportunity for equality. I really hope this doesn’t replicate to the next generation. Certainly won’t in our family

InNeedOfaHobby · 29/10/2021 15:48

It does feel like @sw1v's stance boils down to that childcare shouldn't be affordable because then everyone would use it and there would be no mums to latte with.

Original poster
sw1v · 29/10/2021 15:50

Equality does not mean one thing, you know. You don’t have to be earning the same, changing the same number of nappies and blah blah blah to be ‘equal,’ I mean, I totally understand and accept what you’re getting at, but I just don’t think that rigidly. Equality has many manifestations. Certainly there far more to life than - he works these hours and she works these hours and he does these pick ups and this and that and rah rah rah aren’t we awesome, we are so EQUAL. Go us!

OP posts:
InNeedOfaHobby · 29/10/2021 15:59

Certainly there far more to life than - he works these hours and she works these hours and he does these pick ups and this and that and rah rah rah aren’t we awesome, we are so EQUAL. Go us!

What does the better life look like? Knowingly carrying more than a fair share so you don't have the burden of imagining what would be equal?

Cranncat · 29/10/2021 16:04

I just don’t think that rigidly. Equality has many manifestations.

Do explain how it manifests itself in your life, then, because at the moment it looks like pretty much what @InNeedOfaHobby said.

pointythings · 29/10/2021 16:13

IMO the important kind of equality is where both parties in a relationship are able to parent fully and be financially capable of supporting themselves fully. That way if the relationship breaks down, both parties are able to continue with a decent (if not as good) standardof living.

I have seen several of my friends financially utterly shafted by their exes because they stayed at home (and in one case were pretty much coerced into doing so). A society where it's more difficult for one partner in a relationship to do that to the other sounds pretty damn good to me. I'm with TedMullins - we should all be livid about a society where this is considered acceptable.

The choice to stay at home should be there, but in reality in the UK it is not a choice much of the time - because of the lack of excellent and affordable childcare. If you feel that having that available makes you feel bad - well boohoo, put your big girl pants on and deal.

Original poster
sw1v · 29/10/2021 16:13

I’m not ‘knowingly carrying more than a fair share.’ What a weird assumption.

OP posts:
IpanemaPeaHen · 29/10/2021 16:14

This thread has been a real eye opener in how affordable quality childcare can be provided by gov if they want to.

I would pay more tax for such a system. Too late for me not but my two teenage dd in the future.

I’m also started to think the op might be on the wind up.

Original poster
sw1v · 29/10/2021 16:31

‘I’m also started to think the op might be on the wind up.’

It’s almost as if all people and marriages are different...

OP posts:
InNeedOfaHobby · 29/10/2021 16:31

I’m not ‘knowingly carrying more than a fair share.’ What a weird assumption.

But also

Certainly there far more to life than - he works these hours and she works these hours and he does these pick ups and this and that and rah rah rah aren’t we awesome, we are so EQUAL. Go us!

Which is it OP?

Original poster
sw1v · 29/10/2021 16:43

Which is what?

OP posts:
Parker231 · 29/10/2021 16:48

OP - if you’re away from home, does your DH outsource childcare, cooking, laundry etc or just muck in and continue with school run and after school activities, prepare meals and keep on top of the washing and ironing?

Cranncat · 29/10/2021 16:49

@sw1v

I’m not ‘knowingly carrying more than a fair share.’ What a weird assumption.
It's based on your own posts:

If he was at home with the kids, he wouldn’t switch off from work. I mean I’d leave him with them now they’re older (and also his work is more stable now to ten years ago DS he’s stepping back a bit), but I couldn’t have done when they were little as it would have been unsafe with 4 kids and his level of preoccupation. That’s the truth of it. Most men around here are very similar to my husband. He’s far from unique in this respect.

Your children's own father would have been 'unsafe' to be left looking after his own children when they were little, such was his level of preoccupation with work. And you've normalised that because you see it all round you, which is presumably why the idea of equality of parenting (and by this, yes, I do mean both people changing an equal number of nappies and being 'safe' to be left to parent their own children solo) seems to strike you as such a negative thing.

MarshaBradyo · 29/10/2021 16:52

By ‘we’ I actually meant my family.

Ok so ‘Aibu to think Sweden isn’t right for me and my husband’ - That type of thing

Ok fine.. not much to say to that, that kind of 50/50 set up doesn’t work for you but it doesn’t have to

InNeedOfaHobby · 29/10/2021 17:14

Which is what?

You have said there's more to life than equality at home, but that you don't knowingly do more than your fair share. This is contradictory. Which is true?

Or would you care to expand on what the 'more to life' looks like?

Is there more to life

G5000 · 29/10/2021 17:16

I don’t think it would suit me or my husband in this specific area.

Of course, as based on the post quoted above, your DH is not really a good parent, if it would not even be safe to leave him in charge of his own children. Can you imagine what he could be like, if he had actually taken paternity leave with each of your children and would be an equal parent?

Original poster
sw1v · 29/10/2021 17:19

I don’t think ‘negatively’ of parents who change the same number of nappies and that kind of thing. Why would I need to take a view on other people’s relationships? I don’t caresbiut things like that. Yes, I was being honest that I probably wouldn’t have left my husband with the kids when they were little because he’s too preoccupied. But to be honest, I didn’t need him to be left alone with them, so it wasn’t a massive issue. I could do that as I didn’t have other stuff to worry about, to be perfectly frank. I understand many women might balk at that, but overall, it suited me. If it didn’t I wouldn’t have done it. You can have different roles in a marriage and still be equal. I’m not in a competition with my husband and never was. We don’t relate in that way. Why does it even matter?

OP posts:
Original poster
sw1v · 29/10/2021 17:28

Also, he is a ‘good parent’ because someone has to earn the money - and that’s not me is it! So ok, I might be doing the school runs, but he’s paying for the school. If I’d needed help when he wasn’t there, I could have got a nanny but I didn’t need one of those either. I respect what my husband brings to the family and vice versa.

OP posts:
G5000 · 29/10/2021 17:47

We will obviously disagree here, but I also lived in Sweden some years ago, so that has clearly influenced my opinion. I make a ton of money and pay for DCs private school. However, if it was not safe for my children to be in my care, I'm pretty sure I would get my 'good parent' badge taken away.
Then again, I am female and the bar for being a good dad in the UK is indeed a lot, lot lower.

Cranncat · 29/10/2021 18:00

@sw1v

Also, he is a ‘good parent’ because someone has to earn the money - and that’s not me is it! So ok, I might be doing the school runs, but he’s paying for the school. If I’d needed help when he wasn’t there, I could have got a nanny but I didn’t need one of those either. I respect what my husband brings to the family and vice versa.
As @G5000 said, isn't it astonishing that you consider a man who couldn't safely be left in sole charge of his own children a 'good parent'? Can you honestly imagine the same being said of a woman who earned a lot of money but who couldn't be left alone with her own children?
Original poster
sw1v · 29/10/2021 18:02

Well yes. However, to be fair, a lot of women are honest and, regardless of their career opportunities, they admit they couldn’t cope at home with 4 kids; they find it boring or overwhelming; they don’t have the patience or they just don’t feel cut out for it for whatever reason. Different strokes for different folks.

OP posts:
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