Thank god we don’t live in Sweden. AIBU?

[sw1v]

I was just reading in another thread that in Sweden, you are basically forced to send your babies into day care settings at the age of 1. Apparently 50% of 1 year olds are in full- time nurseries (very long days inc. parents’ commutes) and 95% by the time they are 2! Plus (unlike in the U.K.) there is apparently no minimum ratio for staff to children.

But what if you are a mother who simply doesn’t want to do this (or father)? I personally, would hate this. So how is it acceptable for ‘the state’ to be interfering in people’s personal spheres and family lives by making this ‘the societal norm.’ Is it because they are a high tax society and want more tax? Is this it? Well, it seems like an infringement on personal liberties to me (without wanting to sound too dramatic).

AIBU?

@sw1v

I live in SW London and at the prep school age (ie 4-11), I would say the vast majority of mums are SAHMs. This is my direct experience across 3 schools. Maybe 7 out of 10 mums are SAHM, if not more? Can’t really speak for secondary age as I have less contact with parents.

Prep schools are private schools. The children who go there have wealthy parents. Your selected demographic is not in any way representative of the UK general population. You live in a privileged bubble of wealthy people - you can't generalise from there about what life is like for the rest.

@BoredZelda

I have lost count at the amount of time I have been asked 'so what do you do all day'

I’m going to guess most SAHMs in the U.K. have also heard this question many times.

Back then there was one indoor play area for kids.

Sounds like the experience my sister had living in rural-ish Scotland. Play areas and the plethora of toddler groups weren’t a thing when we were young either, but SAHMs still managed. I never went to a single one when I was a SAHM. Again, your experience was based on your expectations rather than an issue with Swedish culture.

I absolutely agree that it was my expectation of Sweden that was skewed. I didn't anticipate that I would have a harder time raising my children the way I wanted because of the swedish culture.

Parker231 - I respect your question, but I think ultimately, people are complicated, life is complicated and there’s no such thing as “one size fits all.”

@sw1v

I live in SW London and at the prep school age (ie 4-11), I would say the vast majority of mums are SAHMs. This is my direct experience across 3 schools. Maybe 7 out of 10 mums are SAHM, if not more? Can’t really speak for secondary age as I have less contact with parents.

I also live in SW London and during prep school age at my DC’s famously naice school, the opposite is true

Because we deliberately chose the school which was ‘known’ for having mostly 2 working parents and avoided the ones which were known for being hotbeds off SAHMs

All you’re proving is that you too fell in for the confirmation bias when choosing a fancy London prep school
You’re not making any sort of sociological observation here

Previous SAH threads where you have posted exactly the same story about your DH/ set up/ his financial set up.
Literally word for word .
Its not a private forum and I recognised you.

Surely subjects are interesting if it has a debate that involves more than " Im glad this isnt me"
Otherwise it appears you just want validation.

@MrsTerryPratchett

Yes Sweden forces people to put their children in nurseries at one. Also, Holland makes people eat waffles and the Italians have opera as an A level.

Societal norms aren't 'forcing'.

Apart from anything we should be copying them because they're delightful people.

😂😂

Because we deliberately chose the school which was ‘known’ for having mostly 2 working parents and avoided the ones which were known for being hotbeds off SAHMs

All you’re proving is that you too fell in for the confirmation bias

Fair enough, but clearly you also ‘fell in for confirmation bias’? Not by accident, but consciously. I hardly chose schools due to ‘proportion of SAHMs.’ I had no idea and that wasn’t even remotely on my radar when looking at schools.

[quote Parker231]@sw1v - would you not prefer a country where there is equality in employment opportunities and equality in parenting?
What is the inequality teaching the next generation of daughters?[/quote]
This is the question!
Inequality is behind poverty, DV, poor health and life chances.
The vast majority of women need to WOH to support their families and bringing " well Im glad its not me " into a debate is poor form and very blinkered.

@sw1v

Because we deliberately chose the school which was ‘known’ for having mostly 2 working parents and avoided the ones which were known for being hotbeds off SAHMs

All you’re proving is that you too fell in for the confirmation bias

Fair enough, but clearly you also ‘fell in for confirmation bias’? Not by accident, but consciously. I hardly chose schools due to ‘proportion of SAHMs.’ I had no idea and that wasn’t even remotely on my radar when looking at schools.

You almost certainly picked a school based on a number of factors, one of which will have been the ‘tribe’ of other parents and you will on some level have seen, heard or realised lots of those other were SAHMs and considered yourself to have had things in common with them

Several of my SAHM friends ruled out perfectly good schools because other mums at the tours looked too much like high powered lawyers and they didn’t think they would have much in common

Equally, I ruled our schools which expected parents (mothers) to come in regularly to do reading sessions (one even had a nit check rota for parents, despite the £8k a term fees) on the basis that it signalled to me that the school assumed there was a SAHM

So whether it was conscious or deliberate, you almost certainly leant towards a school where the proportion of SAHMs was skewed towards your own situation

@TempleofZoom exactly!
I find the OPs posts quite bizarre.
If she's not fulfilled in her life, the answer is to take active steps to change things. Not post about where she thinks she'd find life even worse. Especially as there are so many factually incorrect points and misconceptions about where she thinks is worse

SW1amp I really didn’t. We moved here and I just got them in where I could.

Zoom and Betty - why are you here then? What are you trying to ‘validate?’ I could say I find you odd. You are reading too much into this and you are wrong. ‘Its not that deep’ as my kids would say.

Erm it's a public forum that's why I'm here and I'm not trying to validate anything; I'm just confused by your concern with Swedish childcare policy, particularly as your obsession with it hasn't extended to actually fact checking

Well yes, I t’s a public forum and that’s why I’m here . Simple as that. And if you read the thread, various people have provided the same or very similar stats and explained them and also given some interesting perspectives. Is that ok?

This is hilarious,OP. I know soooo many people who would LOVE to live in Sweden! Damn them, with their equality and freedoms…

And HOW dare they provide free childcare for those who want it. The MONsTERS!

Thing is, OP, your point seems to have been 'Swedish childcare policy makes SAHMs feel bad'. Well, maybe they should just toughen up. Like I had to when my DDs were in primary and I was one of a very tiny minority of full time working mothers who had to make things work in an environment where everything was geared towards there being a parent at home full time.

Isn't their childcare the envy of the world , excellent parental leave too.

I think accepting that people and their parenting needs/requirements/wants/expectations are all different.
Accepting too that that it doesn't matter where you live in the planet, you can't please all of the people all of the time.

@BettyCarver

Erm it's a public forum that's why I'm here and I'm not trying to validate anything; I'm just confused by your concern with Swedish childcare policy, particularly as your obsession with it hasn't extended to actually fact checking

Exactly. Op I havent actually told you what my circumstances are so no Im not searching for external validation for my choices.

I dont like it
Its hardly showing a balanced view or understanding the needs of others/ society/ inequality.
I get you dont like it that youve been pulled up on it but its a public forum not a private space.

Zelda - nobody here has a monopoly on ‘balanced perspectives.’ We are all posting through our own lenses and with our own prejudices. I think you are misunderstanding me. The very reason I post on MN is specifically because I fully expect to have my perspectives challenged. I thought that was the whole point. I don’t take anything personally - it’s anonymous. That’s why I’m asking AIBU! I know very well lots of people will say I am and that’s ok. It’s a discussion . AIBU is not where you post for support and validation really, is it? But sometimes people may say things that are interesting.

I didn't anticipate that I would have a harder time raising my children the way I wanted because of the swedish culture.

It had nothing to do with the Swedish culture. It was simply a case of your preference for location and services. You wanted to raise your children in a way that you saw toddler groups and activities (presumably set up by someone else) as part of your day. If I, living where I am in the U.K. had wanted that, I wouldn’t have had it here either. My daughter had very little socialisation before she went to nursery at 14 months and had I continued as a SAHM, she wouldn’t have had any when she was older either, those opportunities didn’t really exist. On the other hand, my expat best friend in Sweden had a sizeable group of Swedish mums and their kids she met regularly with when their babies were toddlers and are still friends a decade later. So to suggest the problem was Sweden isn’t accurate.

We are all posting through our own lenses and with our own prejudices. I think you are misunderstanding me.

I don’t think I misunderstood when you posted a false premise, based on false data, taking a swipe at a foreign government and their culture and suggesting the U.K. government doesn’t “interfere” in creating societal norms.

Have your own lens and prejudice, but at the very least, base it on some element of fact.

Er, the data was not false though. At least two people posted stats to confirm it. There was some debate as to what ‘full time’ means in Sweden and I’m not sure what the outcome there was?

@sw1v

Er, the data was not false though. At least two people posted stats to confirm it. There was some debate as to what ‘full time’ means in Sweden and I’m not sure what the outcome there was?

The ‘forced’ element was false, though it’s interesting that you view it as so coercive.

But the ‘forced’ statement was discussed, explained and dealt with many, many pages ago and, in any case, I was hardly implying children are dragged off the streets! It’s obvious what I meant fgs.