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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is it normal to not feel empathy

225 replies

Polmuggle · 25/10/2021 22:35

There was a thread recently about if you can see things with your 'minds eye'. This is similar - I'm wondering if you can feel things with your 'minds heart' or whatever the equivalent is!

I'm sat watching celeb gogglebox, and everyone on it - celebs and the regulars - are feeling genuine deep emotions, tears etc to a documentary about a child who has cancer.

It's moments like this that make me wonder if I'm unusual or lacking. It's not that I don't know it's sad, or know it must be horrendous for that family. It's more like, I can't quite relate to or can't quite feel the emotion, so it doesn't effect me. That's true in real life as well - I care, but don't feel anything. Like I have sympathy but not empathy.

I don't know if I'm describing that right, but does anyone else get this?

OP posts:
Cam22 · 26/10/2021 15:38

@Polmuggle

There was a thread recently about if you can see things with your 'minds eye'. This is similar - I'm wondering if you can feel things with your 'minds heart' or whatever the equivalent is!

I'm sat watching celeb gogglebox, and everyone on it - celebs and the regulars - are feeling genuine deep emotions, tears etc to a documentary about a child who has cancer.

It's moments like this that make me wonder if I'm unusual or lacking. It's not that I don't know it's sad, or know it must be horrendous for that family. It's more like, I can't quite relate to or can't quite feel the emotion, so it doesn't effect me. That's true in real life as well - I care, but don't feel anything. Like I have sympathy but not empathy.

I don't know if I'm describing that right, but does anyone else get this?

OP:

Those people are on tv so yes, they are showing emotion. How genuine is it, though? Hmmmm

Aquamarine1029 · 26/10/2021 15:50

Personally, I find a lot of this "performance empathy", (that's what I call it), quite absurd and disturbing. People who burst into tears and/or claim to be "devasted" every time they turn around, over the plight of people they don't even know, even that of fictional characters, is suspect and just plain weird.

Mnusernc · 26/10/2021 15:52

I started sobbing at the start of the last harry potter film and pretty much the whole way through as I knew what was coming. The thing that makes me cry the most in films and real life is bravery.

Clandestin · 26/10/2021 16:10

@Aquamarine1029

Personally, I find a lot of this "performance empathy", (that's what I call it), quite absurd and disturbing. People who burst into tears and/or claim to be "devasted" every time they turn around, over the plight of people they don't even know, even that of fictional characters, is suspect and just plain weird.
Yes. I mean, it’s not that I’ve never cried at the fate of a fictional character, but anything — fiction, drama, tv etc — that too obviously aims to pluck at my heartstrings, with Sad Music or Dickens Being Gooily Sentimental, makes me roll my eyes. I completely agree with Oscar Wilde that you’d need a heart of stone to read the death of Little Nell without laughing.

(On the other hand, Pip holding hands with Magwitch in the dock as he’s condemned to death always moves me, partly because it’s so understated, and partly because while Magwitch adores Pip, he doesn’t understand that the reason Pip can now be so demonstrative is because he knows he doesn’t have much longer, and won’t be burdened with an ex-convict ‘father’ for life. And M doesn’t understand that him returning to England means his fortune is confiscated and can’t now benefit Pip, for whom he accumulated it.)

doadeer · 26/10/2021 16:15

@Aquamarine1029

Personally, I find a lot of this "performance empathy", (that's what I call it), quite absurd and disturbing. People who burst into tears and/or claim to be "devasted" every time they turn around, over the plight of people they don't even know, even that of fictional characters, is suspect and just plain weird.
I can see why you would say this when watching people on gogglebox but when I'm just at home by myself I would have no reason to be performative. I'm not full blown wailing tears but I often get a lump in my throat or my eyes start to sting and water if I'm seeing something that upsets me. Sometimes I find it hard to explain an upsetting scene as I can't get the words out if it's really sad to me. There's a local walk for baby loss annually and every time I can barely mention it to my partner as the idea is so tragic (I haven't lost a baby but it's so heartbreaking)
HappyDays40 · 26/10/2021 16:21

I work with children with life limiting conditions. I always imagine how the family feels but when they do die I don't feel the pain of loss that you would expect. I think its because I am no good to the child or family if I am emotionally engaged in the whole thing. I can disconnect myself somehow and do what needs to be done. I don't cry after they are not my tears to cry. The bad thing is that I can so this in my person life too. I cope well in a crisis and totally disconnect from the situation. I knew acouple of years ago that my life was in danger so I gathered my things and calmly rang an ambulance. Two hours later I was being resuscitated in hospital!

Clandestin · 26/10/2021 16:51

@HappyDays40

I work with children with life limiting conditions. I always imagine how the family feels but when they do die I don't feel the pain of loss that you would expect. I think its because I am no good to the child or family if I am emotionally engaged in the whole thing. I can disconnect myself somehow and do what needs to be done. I don't cry after they are not my tears to cry. The bad thing is that I can so this in my person life too. I cope well in a crisis and totally disconnect from the situation. I knew acouple of years ago that my life was in danger so I gathered my things and calmly rang an ambulance. Two hours later I was being resuscitated in hospital!
Yes. A friend of mine works with terminally ill children. She would be no use to them or their families if she were a weeping wreck or entered too personally into each situation, each too-short life, each bereavement. They need her to be professional. She has someone to debrief to, but she also needs to practice extremely good mental ‘hygiene’, and to close the door on her job in the evenings.
RobinPenguins · 26/10/2021 17:57

I scored 20 blush

I got 21 on this test. I don’t think I’m neurodivergent in the slightest, just don’t do performative empathy. If something affects me, I feel. If something affects someone else I can objectively want to help them but they’re not my feelings to feel. My mum and dad are the same.

saraclara · 26/10/2021 18:20

@Polmuggle

Oops posted too soon.

But questions like this seem so simplistic

'is it ok the step over other people to achieve your ambitions'

Yes of course it is sometimes. Not in a cruel way but the world would get nowhere if we all waited to be second place!

But you don't have to step over someone to come first! That's the whole point.

If you're good enough at your job or what you're aiming for, you'll deserve to win. You don't need to disadvantage someone else in order to get there. When they say 'strong over someone' they mean that you're deliberately preventing them from competing with you.
I'm very competitive but I'd never answer yes to that question.

DariaMorgendorffer · 26/10/2021 19:43

Unsureschool

On the ADD, not being goady but it seems massively prevalent at the moment and to me described a completely normal reaction to the responsibilities of life in a capitalist society.
HmmHmm

'I'm 47 and grew up in communist Hungary.
I've always had ADHD because it's not something you aquire, you are born with it. So I'm not sure what your point is but when I have to urge to cut my hair at 3am because it suddenly feels too long and hot that's sure as hell has nothing to do with anybody or anything else'
👏 well said @ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba

Nachostress · 26/10/2021 20:19

Like many others have posted, I have the similar detached thing & am very calm generally, I don't really feel emotions strongly (high or low). I'm quite quiet and introverted generally. I used to think i was broken because I'm sure some of it was down to a negligent upbringing (not wanting adults to see they'd upset me)

However, regardless of how much is nature and nurture, ALL types of people are needed! I ended up training for a specific job because I realised I could stay calm and help people who were in crisis, that some of my colleagues really struggled with.

I care hugely, I help people in my work and notice and try and help people in my personal life. I just don't get visibly emotional. I feel sad for people but in more of a 'logical' way than a gut reaction. We're all different.

Kanaloa · 26/10/2021 21:14

@Mnusernc

The test is, if you see a grotesque crime scene photo do you feel upset or interested?
Surely this entirely depends on when/how you see it?

If I was looking at a crime scene picture, for example, as part of an investigation (if it was my job) into a horrific child abuse murder then it would probably be upsetting.

If a friend gleefully showed it to me it would be disturbing because that’s weird behavioural

If it appeared during one of those Netflix crime documentaries I would be indifferent because it would be expected.

entropynow · 26/10/2021 22:40

@RobinPenguins

Yes I’m a bit like this. I do care, but it doesn’t move me to tears. I don’t think it is ok for people to suggest we’re to blame for all the ills in the world just because we don’t cry easily though. If you can’t understand that people react differently to things then you’re the one lacking empathy…
THIS. All the "if you don't cry and sob at soppy films, you're a psychopath" (even all the "jokes" which clearly aren't) BS needs to stop. I worked in a caring profession, cared intensely and worked hard so that my people got good outcomes but didn't sit at my desk weeping about it because it wasn't about my feelings. Ditto doing good to help others voluntarily. Easy cry-ers are quite self-centred imo. All about how they feel about someone they hardly/don't know. Grief and suffering vampires.
Oh4Tunas · 26/10/2021 22:49

I feel empathy, but I don't always want to. If it's "optional", I'd rather not subject myself to negative emotions, so I tend to avoid those situations.

Watching a documentary about someone having cancer? No thanks, really. Watching other people watching a documentary about someone having cancer? I honestly don't see the point. In fact, I almost feel that it's obscene, making entertainment out of someone's real-life tragedy.

chilliplant634 · 27/10/2021 05:23

I don't know why everyone is discounting the possibility that OP is a psychopath so easily. It's not that uncommon. Not all psychopaths are murderers. I'm not sure how useful the online tests are. There are tests and evaluations available for this though.

chilliplant634 · 27/10/2021 05:26

Also there is a difference between a psychopath and a sociopath. Psychopaths are higher functioning with much better impulse control and hence live relatively normal lives and often go undetected.

I suspect its probably also a spectrum of how psychopathic you are. They're probably not all the same.

Sunshinelover2 · 27/10/2021 06:19

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

brokenbiscuitsx · 27/10/2021 08:06

@chilliplant634

Also there is a difference between a psychopath and a sociopath. Psychopaths are higher functioning with much better impulse control and hence live relatively normal lives and often go undetected.

I suspect its probably also a spectrum of how psychopathic you are. They're probably not all the same.

Oh that’s interesting I assumed it was the other way around, that sociopaths were more manipulative and knew what they were doing whereas I thought psychopaths had no real control.
chilliplant634 · 27/10/2021 08:38

I think many of these disorders are characterised by a number of different traits which often overlap. It's not so clear cut as a tick box exercise. Although it's intriguing to do be doing armchair psychology evaluations, and you can gain some insights into the type of personality an individual has, a diagnosis from a professional would probably be far more rounded and look at many different aspects of the individual's life and relationships.

Having said that, to answer OP's question. I think you are in a minority. Most people would have more empathy than you. You don't seem to be describing empathy at all, but you seem to be describing going through the motions of saying the right things and acting out how you think you are socially expected to behave. But you aren't feeling anything inside.

I don't think what you are describing is "normal" but it's certainly not that uncommon either. From what you are saying you are capable of cognitive empathy, but you are not feeling the emotion yourself. So you are able to read people's faces and body language and you respond in a socially acceptable way by "performing" the empathy to get by in life.

You may well be on the psychopathic spectrum, but you have to score in other areas too (not just empathy) to be a proper psychopath Grin

To be fair, individuals with traits like this are often head hunted and sought after in certain professions and occupations. They often do very well in the military.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 27/10/2021 14:35

For the foam rubber example, I wouldn't do it because I don't get kicks from doing pointless shit like that. It's not entertaining to see somebody upset.

Same way I rescue people from spiders. I'd rather not touch the things directly because a) I might hurt it, being a great clumping human thousands of times heavier and larger than the spider b) some can bite when they feel threatened and c) I'm a huge fan of social distancing from anything with more legs than I have - it's a normal human instinct. But a plastic cup and a bit of card saves the spider at least in the immediate aftermath, avoids unnecessary physical contact with it, stops the fucking screeching and people are usually happy that they've been rescued from the poor little thing minding its own business doing spidery things.

What use are people who take an emotional kick from watching others suffer? Seriously, when there is an overturned car full of sobbing teenagers who need to be reassured, got out of the vehicle and as far away from the vehicle as possible before that smell of petrol turns into something considerably hotter, what use are you standing there and saying 'Oh, my god, I can't watch (but still watching), it's all so awful, sob, sob, it must be terrifying'? Get the fuck out of my way and stop demanding attention both then and once I've fished the kids out where you're going on about how upset you are to see that happen and you need somebody to look after you as well. But I'm sure you feel good from the endorphins that come from crying and then somebody giving up their time to comforting you and being reassured that you're actually a better person than everybody else.

How are you helping somebody to make it about your feelings? You're not. You're using their suffering to claim attention for yourself, as you're all so very special and emotional and sensitive.

My mother left her cat to suffer horribly from a spinal injury for days until he died of a saddle thrombosis. She couldn't bear to take him to the vet, apparently, couldn't manage to dump the cage and walk away from a distressed, scared, crying animal for the vet to deal with. So she left him in fucking agony instead because her emotions and being seen as the sensitive animal lover like fuck was more important than doing what was right for the poor bastard animal. I've stayed with my animals every single time because when they need to be put to sleep, my feelings don't matter - they need at least some familiarity, somebody they know and trust stroking them as they hopefully slip away gently.

And afterwards, yeah, I cry. Proper ugly sobs. The cat's fine, they're not in pain anymore they're either in Cat Heaven or not, depending upon any belief in metaphysics or supernatural dimensions. So I'm crying for me not having my cat anymore.

When I was waiting outside beforehand and a little girl asked me 'Why is your cat laying down?', I don't make it all about me or upset her, I replied that she was very old and very tired, so she was having a little sleep before we saw the vet for some medicine. OK, when I came out and the little girl's Mum instantly gave me a hug, I really appreciated it even though it nearly set me off again. She didn't go all sobby and distressed because my cat was dead. She was genuinely being caring and doing something useful/kind. That's not fucking entertainment for the masses, even if it would have made perfect TV for a Wednesday evening for others to get all emotional and talk about how they felt so sad and they're such empathetic souls. After all, everybody loved watching Rolf Harris when he got all teary at dead cats, didn't they? Such a kind man, so empathetic. So fucking manipulative.

saraclara · 27/10/2021 17:35

@Polmuggle, on the back of our 'foam rubber phobic friend' posts can I ask if you ever do something so that it will make someone happy? Do you get pleasure on someone else's happiness?

You saying that you wouldn't think about not doing something purely to prevent someone being upset (only so that they wouldn't be angry with you) made me wonder if people's happiness matters to you in any emotional sense?

Also thank you for being so honest. This has been a very interesting thread, and it's really making me think!

Polmuggle · 27/10/2021 18:19

@santaclara

God of course!!!

I swear I seem normal (and maybe am judging by some answers). I have friends and a close family, have had loving relationships etc. Am a good colleague and boss etc.

But wanting to make someone happy isn't quite the same as empathy I don't think. I also don't have a strong aversion to making people unhappy, but as said earlier, that's more for strangers.

So I'd very unlikely to do something that disadvantaged me to make a stranger happy, and am ok doing things that advance me at the cost of a strangers happiness. Not because I'm callous but because I don't imagine/feel their emotions so it's seems so abstract to me.

OP posts:
QueeniesCroft · 27/10/2021 18:42

@chilliplant634

I don't know why everyone is discounting the possibility that OP is a psychopath so easily. It's not that uncommon. Not all psychopaths are murderers. I'm not sure how useful the online tests are. There are tests and evaluations available for this though.
I'm heartened to see a lack of diagnoses! It's too easy to declare that everyone and his dog is a narcissist, so I was expecting similar here.

OP, it has been a few years since I studied psychology at university, but I do remember being told that worrying about being a psychopath or sociopath is a pretty good indication that you aren't! You sound perfectly "normal" to me, in as much as normality is a spectrum and most people fit on there somewhere. Being able to regulate your own emotions isn't a bad thing, but performing whatever you feel makes you a "better" or more acceptable person is.

saraclara · 27/10/2021 18:45

[quote Polmuggle]@santaclara

God of course!!!

I swear I seem normal (and maybe am judging by some answers). I have friends and a close family, have had loving relationships etc. Am a good colleague and boss etc.

But wanting to make someone happy isn't quite the same as empathy I don't think. I also don't have a strong aversion to making people unhappy, but as said earlier, that's more for strangers.

So I'd very unlikely to do something that disadvantaged me to make a stranger happy, and am ok doing things that advance me at the cost of a strangers happiness. Not because I'm callous but because I don't imagine/feel their emotions so it's seems so abstract to me.[/quote]
Thanks OP.

FWIW, you come over as lovely in your posts!

Spidersinmyhair · 27/10/2021 18:54

Think I'm the opposite. I literally cried yesterday at a made-up scenario in my head about someone else's pet dying. It was quite a long daydream and I had tears streaming. Both person and pet were completely imaginary, haha Blush

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