Pretty privilege - do you have it?

[BlueSparklesss]

Certain studies show that being conventionally attractive is linked to more favourable outcomes from a jury, which made me a bit

But I suppose in another way, it's not really that surprising.

I definitely don't have pretty privilege myself (am a bog standard, perfectly normal looking woman - don't hate myself or anything) and don't really think about my looks often.

However, as a teenager I was mortified by how 'ugly' I was, and the world definitely felt more brutal because I was not attractive. It does make me sad that I was so brainwashed by patriarchal norms at such a young age, that it really affected self esteem. And that's with good female role models who always praised the things I was good at.

What are your thoughts? I think it would be interesting to hear if anyone has experienced both sides - of feeling 'pretty' and also feeling dismissed as 'not pretty' at a different time in their life?

Sometimes on MN you read about women who are traffic-stoppingly good looking, people falling over themselves to help etc etc. I find this fascinating! What must that be like?

I felt very invisible as a fat teen, lost a lot of weight in my early 20s and got more attention but now, in my mid 40s even though I am now overweight, I have loads of 'fuck it' perimenopause confidence, with money for nice hair/clothes/make up. I've noticed I'm getting more attention now

@MrsWentworth

Slight tangent, but in response to many of these responses: why do so many women let themselves get fat when they get older? It isn't compulsory!

What a delight you are.

You could also ask why women question and judge others but hey ho.

why do so many women let themselves get fat when they get older?

Same reason men do?

I'm not fat just not my pre kids, young skinny model shape. I like food but my metabolism is slower now, I'm still happy with my shape though as I prefer that look.

Cameleongirl I know! We nearly did but knowing what the guardia civil are like over there, we didn't want to be banged to rights in a jail for the night!

We were OK to be served a couple of cocktails each, until the young crowd arrived and then we were an irrelevance

Yes, I agree. I'm quite happy in myself, (especially as I've lost over 2.5stone this year so feeling even better!)

I always wonder if women who are pretty and attract a lot of male attention and possibly privilege while young, have a really hard time as they get older and find things changing.

I’m considerably overweight and only average looking but have a good smile and eyes. Getting older (61) has been a boon really, as less pressure to look good. I was definitely discriminated against for my weight when younger (so the reverse of pretty privilege) but it seems more acceptable to be bigger now I’m older so that feels more comfortable

Not for me personally. I’ve only ever been slightly above average but l suppose l have aged better than most of my contemporaries. That’s mainly due to genetics with a side order of exercise, good food and lots of water

At work l have seen pretty privilege at it’s must extreme. Women kills one of her children, faked mental illness and gets away with it. She didn’t even fake it very well. She was pretty, white, blonde and slim (at the time -the drugs for her “mental health” helped contribute to weight gain, as well as lots of sitting about eating)

Isn't it telling how conditioned we all are to cringe and apologise for saying we are or were pretty? Female socialisation within the patriarchy is so toxic isn't it!

I think it's a tough one this as arrogance isn't attractive in either sex. I also think one persons pretty is another average. Look at the "what celeb men do you think are gorgeous" threads. I'm often confused & shocked by others choices 😆

From childhood until my thirties, I was constantly being told I was ugly, had a weird cat face, I was nothing special and shouldn't get ideas above myself.

Nobody liked me. Well, to be accurate, nobody female liked me. I got on fine with the boys at school and with men at work and never had a problem with any other male I met anywhere else. I found that, for some reason, the women who seemed to despise me the most were absolutely stunning - as I wasn't particularly slim, the time where work had a list up for staff to order certain foodstuffs comes to mind - the most amazingly attractive woman working there added my name to the list with '10,000 boxes' as the order and, although I thought it was very mean humour at my expense as I knew I was fat and ugly, I didn't quite get why one of the men instantly ripped it off the wall and marched off to talk to her manager, as it was the sort of thing that always happened to me wherever I worked, as I was inherently dislikeable (which was what I had been told since childhood). And the men I dated all seemed to go a bit weird when I wanted to leave the house, as they 'knew what you're like' and I'd 'have men hanging about like flies on shit' if I went anywhere without them. (Yes, arseholes the lot of them and I'm well shot)

When I first started seeing DP, we went to a special event and I wore a dress for the first time since I'd met him, a bit of makeup and was convinced he'd think I looked ridiculous - I'd also been told 'You can't polish a turd' many times beforehand. When I opened the door to him, he genuinely did the Wow, you look amazing doubletake. Which made me feel good, but he was obviously being kind. A few years later, I found that he'd got a photo somebody had taken of me printed out and he kept it in with his sentimental stuff. I didn't even realise it was me, other than for the dress. That ugly, cat faced weirdo is actually pretty. Proper pretty.

Now it makes sense why I never had any problems getting help from men, women were mean to me and I didn't have any difficulty getting dates. I was pretty. Probably still an ultimately unlikeable arsehole, but then again, perhaps that's at least in part due to people being spiteful.

So I benefitted from both the Pretty Privilege and suffered the Pretty Tax, both without knowing it.

I was rather plain as a teen and then I glowed up at 18-19.

I thought people were just being nice. They weren't lol.
I don't think it helped in my career as I was in a male dominated industry. Sure people were nice to me, but I wasn't taken seriously.

Sometimes it got rather scary being followed around and pestered by men.

@MrsWentworth

Slight tangent, but in response to many of these responses: why do so many women let themselves get fat when they get older? It isn't compulsory!

Oh dear. The nasties are out tonight

I always wonder if women who are pretty and attract a lot of male attention and possibly privilege while young, have a really hard time as they get older and find things changing.

No, I love being more invisible

I've never been drop dead gorgeous but I was pretty, had big boobs and great hair so I got a lot of male attention til I was early 40s

I honestly don't miss it at all! I can now walk down the street without some rando telling me to smile or making a comment about my body or trying to get my attention.

Not a problem for me. I've always had a face like a skelped arse.

When I was a size 6-8 in my teens and early 20's with dyed bleach blonde hair - yes definitely.

My face has always been average at best, but the hair coupled with make-up offset that and people found me attractive.

I'm 27 now and have more natural hair, can't be arsed to wear make up and have put on some weight after having children. I'm definitely more invisible now and the privilege has well and truly gone

I was very pretty when younger but am treated better now. Why? Because now I’m an old(ish) Battleaxe!

I don't think you do have to be young to benefit from it.

Our group was interviewed by a woman who was very plump and over 50. She had striking eyes and nice hair but most of all, she spoke beautifully, had a lovely smile, ready to laugh and really nice manners.

Our group had both sexes in it of all ages and almost everyone wanted to please her by answering her questions, even some of the ones who hadn't wanted the group to be written about at all!

I suppose she had a good manner and it helped to make her job easier.

So based on my sample of one woman, I don't think it does fade with age because it must lay down a confidence even when the weight and years pile on.

@whispamint

Isn't it telling how conditioned we all are to cringe and apologise for saying we are or were pretty? Female socialisation within the patriarchy is so toxic isn't it!

I think it's a tough one this as arrogance isn't attractive in either sex. I also think one persons pretty is another average. Look at the "what celeb men do you think are gorgeous" threads. I'm often confused & shocked by others choices 😆

I get what you're saying but it isn't arrogant for people to say "I think I'm pretty", if that's what people believe - it's just a fact. Like "I think I'm clever" or "I think I'm good at xyz" - if those things are said out of the blue obviously they would sound arrogant! But even in a conversation specifically about looks, it's just interesting we feel like pricks if we say yes I think I look nice. As I said, I don't particularly anymore and wouldn't have dreamed of saying I did when I did! Just interesting that I do think as women we in general think of self appreciation as arrogant and wrong.

I think its true for both males and females. Good looking people do better on average, I think there have been studies that prove this too.

I'd say that ime when ive been at times in my life where I've dressed well, made an effort with hair, make up etc and been more 'pretty' I've had much better outcomes than when I've made no effort and worn old clothes. I think people are more drawn to people who look good, maybe it's human nature.

I was bullied at school and told I was ugly, no one would ever want to go out with me and even that I'd caused my dad's fatal heart attack by being such a minger. It destroyed my self esteem and I believe it paved the way for the abusive relationship I found myself in. I had no boundaries and was just desperate to be liked. Even now I see myself as ugly, and fat too since I had my kids. Other than at school when a kind of mocking sexual harassment formed part of the bullying I have never been on the receiving end of unwanted attention from men because I just don't have the looks for it, so maybe there is an advantage to being very plain.

I have it though I would never admit it in real life, it sounds toe curling. In my world it’s meant that my sister has spent a life time resenting me and some of my friends have told me they were initially weary of me around their husbands. I am quite shy and introverted so I find the attention uncomfortable. I also hated the assumption in my teens and twenties that I must be bitchy or a slut. I’ve always been blonde and thin with a big smile, not particularly pretty, I just have those features which seem to be enough.

@NeverDropYourMooncup

From childhood until my thirties, I was constantly being told I was ugly, had a weird cat face, I was nothing special and shouldn't get ideas above myself.

Nobody liked me. Well, to be accurate, nobody female liked me. I got on fine with the boys at school and with men at work and never had a problem with any other male I met anywhere else. I found that, for some reason, the women who seemed to despise me the most were absolutely stunning - as I wasn't particularly slim, the time where work had a list up for staff to order certain foodstuffs comes to mind - the most amazingly attractive woman working there added my name to the list with '10,000 boxes' as the order and, although I thought it was very mean humour at my expense as I knew I was fat and ugly, I didn't quite get why one of the men instantly ripped it off the wall and marched off to talk to her manager, as it was the sort of thing that always happened to me wherever I worked, as I was inherently dislikeable (which was what I had been told since childhood). And the men I dated all seemed to go a bit weird when I wanted to leave the house, as they 'knew what you're like' and I'd 'have men hanging about like flies on shit' if I went anywhere without them. (Yes, arseholes the lot of them and I'm well shot)

When I first started seeing DP, we went to a special event and I wore a dress for the first time since I'd met him, a bit of makeup and was convinced he'd think I looked ridiculous - I'd also been told 'You can't polish a turd' many times beforehand. When I opened the door to him, he genuinely did the Wow, you look amazing doubletake. Which made me feel good, but he was obviously being kind. A few years later, I found that he'd got a photo somebody had taken of me printed out and he kept it in with his sentimental stuff. I didn't even realise it was me, other than for the dress. That ugly, cat faced weirdo is actually pretty. Proper pretty.

Now it makes sense why I never had any problems getting help from men, women were mean to me and I didn't have any difficulty getting dates. I was pretty. Probably still an ultimately unlikeable arsehole, but then again, perhaps that's at least in part due to people being spiteful.

So I benefitted from both the Pretty Privilege and suffered the Pretty Tax, both without knowing it.

That is so strange. I can only think that you were actually very attractive and had the misfortune to be in the presence of a lot of really bitchy women.

I also think if someone is truly beautiful facially that doesn't just disappear as you age. A few months ago I saw a women in her late 50s (I would guess) on a day out & she was gorgeous.
One of my friends relatives is in her 70s & she has the most amazing cheekbones (like Kate Moss ones). I saw her at friends wedding & I noticed her out of everyone & commented to friend.

@MrsWentworth

Slight tangent, but in response to many of these responses: why do so many women let themselves get fat when they get older? It isn't compulsory!

As a self defence mechanism. Makes you harder to pick up by the throat because you smiled at a shopkeeper or a man looked at you.

Reduces the number of people who approach you on the street or on the train giving you their phone number.

Makes you potentially a bit safer from the barbs of spite chucked your way in the office because the IT guy always comes to fix your PC within twenty minutes.

Because you've always been told you're fat and ugly, so you don't see the point in eating more sensibly and exercising (because that's 'only to get more men after you and won't make any difference anyhow' or because 'I know what you're like with men, you give off the impression that you're Up for It').

Shit like that.

@MrsWentworth

Slight tangent, but in response to many of these responses: why do so many women let themselves get fat when they get older? It isn't compulsory!

We get fat on purpose solely to annoy everyones visual aesthetic.

I personally intend on increasing my mass to the size and gravitational pull of a small moon, mostly because I want to look like a Beryl Cook painting.

I am (was) what people sometimes call a “package girl”: not beautiful, but nice-ish face, body, hair, teeth, clothes etc. I scrub up well and get treated well as a result.

As I hit my mid 40s I’ve really noticed being less visible and honestly it’s tough.

I did see this quite starkly at university when I was friendly with two identical twins.

Except they weren't identical in their looks at that time.

A was slim, pretty & confident whereas B was on the chunky side, spotty & shy.

It affected both of them. A was fiercely protective of her sister & used to get furious that B was dismissed as the 'plain twin', & B was understandably pissed off at the endless 'oh wow you're A's sister? Can you introduce me to her, she's hot!' bullshit.

I'm still slightly in touch with both on FB, & they're both very ordinary looking, averagely attractive middle aged women these days.

I've no idea what the long term effects of being 'the pretty twin' & 'the plain twin' were. Maybe none! They've both had successful careers, have families & seem very happy.

But certainly at the time, it was very shitty indeed for B. I know she absolutely hated having a 'prettier version' of her own looks sashaying around campus. She was perfectly ok looking in her own right, but constantly compared to A who was drop dead gorgeous.

& I don't think it was much fun for A either. She loved her twin & hated seeing her belittled. She was also very aware that people treated her differently because she was pretty, because she could see only too clearly that her plainer sister was treated very differently.