Pretty privilege - do you have it?

[BlueSparklesss]

Certain studies show that being conventionally attractive is linked to more favourable outcomes from a jury, which made me a bit

But I suppose in another way, it's not really that surprising.

I definitely don't have pretty privilege myself (am a bog standard, perfectly normal looking woman - don't hate myself or anything) and don't really think about my looks often.

However, as a teenager I was mortified by how 'ugly' I was, and the world definitely felt more brutal because I was not attractive. It does make me sad that I was so brainwashed by patriarchal norms at such a young age, that it really affected self esteem. And that's with good female role models who always praised the things I was good at.

What are your thoughts? I think it would be interesting to hear if anyone has experienced both sides - of feeling 'pretty' and also feeling dismissed as 'not pretty' at a different time in their life?

Sometimes on MN you read about women who are traffic-stoppingly good looking, people falling over themselves to help etc etc. I find this fascinating! What must that be like?

In short, no.

It always cracks me up how many people on here have it though. I hang around with an attractive group of women and I have never seen it in action. So crikey, all of the people on here must secretly be Kate Moss. Not that I think she is particularly pretty.

I’d love to be Kate Middleton for a day though. Imagine people just doing whatever you want or need.

@ChorizoJacketPotato I agree. Loads of my mates are absolutely beautiful and I don't see them face hostility from other women nor struggle for female friends. Generally people want to be around good looking people don't they? I think some people on here must have it in their head that other women are vicious, jealousy creatures.
I don't think I'm part of the pretty gang but as a youngish single mum I have faced hostility from men. I think they see me as a threat to their fragile masculinity, lest I dared to take their wives on a night out or showed them how good the world is without male interference or something!

I would never say this in real life!

I think I now know I have enough prettiness, such as a friendly face, scrubbing up quite well, nice smile, which means I get treated well by strangers and new people, but because I'm not absolutely gorgeous or conventionally "beautiful", I dont get lots of the "pretty perks" except for the odd free drink now and then.

However, I am never seen as a threat and so I know I don't have issues with finding a new partner, or mixing with new groups of people because of this. Women, for example, don't see me as too pretty. In that sense, I have enough pretty privilege for it to work in my favour. I think I have it better than my incredibly conventionally beautiful friend, who has been offered all these perks such as free club entry, upgrades, etc. She does not have a bad bone in her body, but I know she gets judged by other people (and unfortunately mostly women) for being "a cow", "stuck up", etc - people have even asked me why I'm friends with her.

However, I do and have always looked young for my age, which, as I get older, means I'm starting to get more attention off men, who I know are my age or older. I think this says it all, and has made me far more wary about being friendly as a result.

I had "pretty privilege" until about my mid thirties (tall, slim, blonde, big eyes etc.) but I never felt it was an unmixed blessing. Yes, men would fall over themselves to help but even at the time I used to think this was about my superficial appearance, not about me, the person. The creeps were a constant problem while the nice guys held back. Some men also used to be quite hostile, presumably resentful that I was out of their league? Women were often jealous. It was difficult to be taken seriously in the workplace and I definitely missed out on promotion and jobs. One older man told me he couldn't recruit me because his wife wouldn't like it. (I wish I had told him to tell her he was quite safe with me.) None of this was helped by the fact that I came from a family that revered academic achievement above all else while good looks were seen as an unearned, rather despised attribute, so it contributed to my feeling of being "the stupid one". One boyfriend told me I should be a model and I was deeply insulted as I assumed he meant I was thick! I realise this sounds a bit like rich people grousing about the problems of having money but they never seem to want to give it all away but the point I really want to make is this; I don't miss it one bit and am much happier and more confident now. My DH still thinks I am his lovely so that's all that matters.

Yes, society on the whole is pretty shallow and judgmental, and in its extreme, that can mean unwanted negative attention to anyone who is somehow outside the 'norm'. This applies to appearance as much as behaviour.

At one extreme, very pretty people (women especially) can experience harassment and prejudice (e.g. the assumption that they have only achieved because they are pretty). At the other extreme, people with facial disfigurement may experience bullying, discrimination and active abuse:

www.lets-face-it.org.uk/discrimination-against-those-with-a-facial-disfigurement/

When I was a teenager and young woman, I had a profound eating disorder which resulted in me looking horrifically emaciated most of the time. People felt they had the right to chastise me in the street, I was accused of shoplifting and derogatory comments were made about my appearance on an almost daily basis.

Unfortunately, people are judged on their appearance in society. This may be an innate response, but most people should have the ability to check their behaviour and think about how the attention. comments or discrimination (positive or negative) may affect the individual.

If this behaviour is not checked, it can have catastrophic effects on vulnerable people (pretty or not).

From men, yes. Women, no.

@Amazingblossoms

I was surprised at the attention I got from men after dyeing my hair blonde (to cover the grey)

They would be much more attentive and almost fawning.

I was so uncomfortable I went back to brunette.

I find this so weird. The 'blonde obsession'

A lot of these experiences, mine included, are about youth privilege.

Real beauty outlasts youth and occasionally gets more potent. But that is very rare indeed.

@donemeover
It was really odd and just creeped me out

I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't experienced it myself.

Oh yes, the blonde obsession! I remember boys telling me that they would ask me out if I dyed my hair blonde

[quote Amazingblossoms]@donemeover
It was really odd and just creeped me out

I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't experienced it myself.[/quote]
It's quite sick really and weird. Not on your part lol, I'm theirs.

I wonder where the blonde obsession comes from? I've always found it strange as someone's hair colour really doesn't automatically mean they're pretty it's bizarre.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/science/2010/jun/04/men-blonde-women-attractive

I have seen this first hand in my workplace. I’m an average looking woman so I kind of get a fair treatment but definitely not any extras. However, I have seen bigger women in my workplace spoken down to and treated very, very differently by senior male management compared to the stereotypical ‘pretty women’ in our workplace.
It’s really hard work.
I have also noticed, the men are treated pretty equally across the board, regardless of their size/looks.

Regarding blonde hair, that article says " before bottles of hydrogen peroxide became available, blonde hair in females could be interpreted as an honest signal of youth and therefore reproductive fitness. This is because postmenopausal women rarely retain the flaxen locks of their youth, of course eventually becoming grey grannies."

However, people have dyed their hair for centuries using henna for example. I think that urine could also be used to bleach hair, as it can be used to get ammonia. According to this, Roman prostitutes had to have yellow hair and used ash to achieve this or wigs.

I remember going to a fancy dress party once and my dark haired friend decided to come as Marilyn Monroe. She arrived very flustered and said so many cars beeped at her and men shouted compliments at her as they drove past. It’s ridiculous.

It may be an unpopular opinion I'm sure but there are definitely some circumstances where it's "female privilege", not just "pretty privilege".

For example, a (male) colleague of mine was moaning the other day about how long it took him to cross the road by work as the road is busy. Conversely, I never have to wait more than one or two cars before someone lets me across (and I am neither slim or young!).

When I was younger I was a lot more "attractive" and would say that I was treated differently.

Unfortunately I was also leered at and hooted at, just for walking down the street, so while there may have been an element of "privilege" I think I'd prefer to have not had that if it meant I wasn't subject to the leering.

Yes, it is quite a strange opinion that females have privilege over males.

I'm surprised that women feel the privilege goes as young as they say.
A few people only in their 30s feel they had it but it's gone.

I'm 51 and even amongst the women I know, the ones who were gorgeous at 35 still hold an elevated status. If they're the most gorgeous 51 year old in a room full of 50 ish women, there is still a privilege there. Their job hunting efforts will be more successful too. I dropped a pen at work once and somebody tried to insinuate I was ''dotty'' having a bad day. That wouldn't happen to an extraordinarily attractive 51 year old. They still have the ''privilege'' of being exempt from relegation to dotty old lady (for longer anyway)

It may change, but pretty privilege carries on.

My DD14 has really felt this since she started secondary school.

She's a really attractive, slim, intelligent, funny and kind person, but she tends to value the latter three things more than the former two.

You would think this was a good thing but it's unfortunately led to her feeling more isolated at school, as in her peer group how attractive the girls are is SO important.

Her best friend from junior school is now stunning and places a lot of importance on her looks and getting approval from boys (and girls) and the difference in how she is treated compared to my DD is depressing.

My DD went through a lot of soul searching over this for a long time but recently came out the other side and I'm so pleased to say she's now more confident and happy than she's been in a long time.

@M1lkyway

I have seen this first hand in my workplace. I’m an average looking woman so I kind of get a fair treatment but definitely not any extras. However, I have seen bigger women in my workplace spoken down to and treated very, very differently by senior male management compared to the stereotypical ‘pretty women’ in our workplace. It’s really hard work. I have also noticed, the men are treated pretty equally across the board, regardless of their size/looks.

Oh yes, my boss, if I ask him a question he can (not always) be irritated. the 20 somethings, if they ask him a question, he wheels his chair over to their desk to talk them through the solution. I am lucky if I get an answer to clarify. Never mind 2 minutes of explanation or clarity.

I actually raised it with him in a meeting he set. He set a goal for me to get more submissions 100% correct but also to ask fewer questions so I raised his inconsistency with him and he blushed.

I wasn't trying to make him blush but I do hate that he was treating us differently and hadn't even registered that consciously, to the extent where he wanted me to have the goal of never asking him anything but getting more work 100% right. He remains so happy to help the 20 somethings!

At one extreme, very pretty people (women especially) can experience harassment and prejudice (e.g. the assumption that they have only achieved because they are pretty). At the other extreme, people with facial disfigurement may experience bullying, discrimination and active abuse.

Indeed. We are not on this planet to decorate it for shallow fuckwits; to be harassed when we do live up to someone else's notion of attractiveness and harassed when we don't. It makes me furious. Where on earth do people get off - and this sometimes includes other women - from behaving like that to females?

The patriarchy's played a blinder. It's sadder still when women internalize this stuff and mourn the passing of our youth and former looks. It doesn't matter, not in the slightest, what random male strangers think of us. We don't need validation of our physical appearance from people this shallow and vapid. So what if that makes us invisible? Good!

We all, every single one of us, have so much more about us that's more interesting and valuable than that. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

It may be an unpopular opinion I'm sure but there are definitely some circumstances where it's "female privilege", not just "pretty privilege".

No such thing.

@harpervalentine

I would never say this in real life!

I think I now know I have enough prettiness, such as a friendly face, scrubbing up quite well, nice smile, which means I get treated well by strangers and new people, but because I'm not absolutely gorgeous or conventionally "beautiful", I dont get lots of the "pretty perks" except for the odd free drink now and then.

However, I am never seen as a threat and so I know I don't have issues with finding a new partner, or mixing with new groups of people because of this. Women, for example, don't see me as too pretty. In that sense, I have enough pretty privilege for it to work in my favour. I think I have it better than my incredibly conventionally beautiful friend, who has been offered all these perks such as free club entry, upgrades, etc. She does not have a bad bone in her body, but I know she gets judged by other people (and unfortunately mostly women) for being "a cow", "stuck up", etc - people have even asked me why I'm friends with her.

However, I do and have always looked young for my age, which, as I get older, means I'm starting to get more attention off men, who I know are my age or older. I think this says it all, and has made me far more wary about being friendly as a result.

In theory people who are averagely pretty shouldn't be a threat but I think that insecure people will always cow tow to the beauties because their friendship validates them but they will express all of their jealousy and insecurity and anger on to the ordinary pretty woman iyswim. A cousin of mine who has so many things I don't have, a gorgeous house, married to somebody with an impressive job, kids at private school, she would seem to have it all but she has given me the silent treatment our whole lives and all I can think of is that I'm conventionally slim, conventionally pretty (in an ordinary way)

But these are issues to do with insecurity (hers) and lack of confidence (mine). I know it wouldn't have played out like this if I had more innate confidence. she enjoys tearing me down.

I did a course on unconscious bias at work, it never mentioned unconscious bias towards more attractive people, and it should have because it happens.

Pretty privilege does exist to an extent, for example (and I would never say this out loud) but I am quite .. pretty, people often tell me I am, when I was at school I was always told I was and boys would fancy me etc, my best friend at school wasn't that pretty, a lot of people at school wanted to be friends with me because I was pretty but not with her, they would even say to me that I was 'too pretty' to be friends with her and some of the other people I was friends with. Bizarre. Quite often she would fancy boys who would fancy me, on the flip side though, I didn't fancy any of them and therefore got a lot more unwanted attention, boys would never be just my friend, there would always be an ulterior motive. So whilst in some respects I was treated better, in others I wasn't. It's all about perspective I guess, my friend still gets cat called and given unwanted attention by men, but I might get it slightly more, another thing I have noticed that isn't a privilege is that she was always taken more seriously than me, as if I was dumb, but that may be also because I'm blonde and she is brunette. Ultimately I do think pretty privilege exists to an extent but I wouldn't say it's a privilege that trumps other things

I disagree about being favoured by a jury if you’re attractive. My experience of dealing with sexual offences was that jurors, particularly women, judge other women extremely harshly, especially attractive ones. For example an attractive rape victim or domestic violence victim is often judged harshly.