Page 7 | Being gay and "Straight Passing"

Leafygreen1 · 26/10/2021 12:39

@trancepants you're using outdated stats though, we know it's a lot less than that identify as heterosexual now and will continue to do so. so whilst stereotypes are an issue now, they are likely to get less and less as time progresses.

trancepants · 26/10/2021 14:16

[quote Leafygreen1]@trancepants you're using outdated stats though, we know it's a lot less than that identify as heterosexual now and will continue to do so. so whilst stereotypes are an issue now, they are likely to get less and less as time progresses.[/quote]
No I'm not. The most recent UK stat is that 2.2% of people identify as lesbian, gay and bisexual. 2.2%! The majority of those are bisexual. The majority of those will be in long term relationships with people of the opposite sex. If some heterosexual people think they aren't straight because they are only attracted to people of the opposite sex and only after they get to know them, they still aren't homosexual.

A very, very, very small percentage of people are homosexual. So unless a man has obvious traits that make others suspect they are gay, people are likely to make assumptions that they are straight because most people are. I'm not saying this can't feel wearisome and unfair or nerve-wracking or cause multiple other negative feelings for a gay person throughout their life. But it isn't something that will change. What we can change is how we react. Society should be, and increasing had been, a place where gay people or bisexuals in same sex relationships shouldn't have to worry about the reaction they would get when they stated their sexual orientation. But pretending that there are more gay people than there are and telling people they should act accordingly, will do the opposite. And pretending that a bunch of attentions seeking identities, that are just straight people with certain personality traits are actually other sexualities, will do the opposite, squared. Because most people really fucking resent being asked to deny reality. And attention seekers with 'queer' identities, hitching on to the very real identities and real struggles of people with minority sexual orientations, will do nothing other than undermine them.

SoniaFouler · 26/10/2021 14:35

^^ Exactly. It’s othering, almost like “oh just dump them in with ‘the gays’”. It’s how I feel about the term BAME too.

Leafygreen1 · 26/10/2021 16:27

@trancepants can you not think of some issues with those stats you are stating and why they are incorrectly low for real life ?

if you look at the 2020 / 2021 studies of people under 25 (and so much less likely to be used to hiding their sexuality) as mentioned upthred its already nearer 20% . and it will change - you only need to go hang out in much more mixed areas like Brighton to see how quickly standard assumptions start being dropped as much.

trancepants · 26/10/2021 16:43

[quote Leafygreen1]@trancepants can you not think of some issues with those stats you are stating and why they are incorrectly low for real life ?

if you look at the 2020 / 2021 studies of people under 25 (and so much less likely to be used to hiding their sexuality) as mentioned upthred its already nearer 20% . and it will change - you only need to go hang out in much more mixed areas like Brighton to see how quickly standard assumptions start being dropped as much.[/quote]
No those are the actual statistics from last year of people who are bisexual and homosexual. 2.2% Those are the minority sexual orientations. An increasing bunch of spicy straights feeling too special to admit to being heterosexual doesn't change how many people are gay, lesbian or bi.

And undoubtedly more than 2.2% of people in Brighton are bi and homosexual. It is an area known for it's gay community so people specifically move there. That doesn't change reality. The vast, vast majority of people are heterosexual and/or people in heterosexual relationships. And it's ultimately damaging to pretend otherwise.

whereisthekey · 26/10/2021 16:52

I think most people know those figures are very far out :s and the reasons why they would be..

Gwenhwyfar · 26/10/2021 18:01

Which survey do those stats come from Trance - the census? Is it because it's filled in by one person in the family usually? I've always heard about 10% for gay men and much lower for women. I just can't believe 2% unless the survey was taken in public in a socially conservative area or something.

MamsellMarie · 28/10/2021 13:07

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/sexuality/bulletins/sexualidentityuk/2019

whereisthekey · 28/10/2021 13:51

that survey can't genuinely be used as evidence though as it's going to be very low. even though it does it states over 6% of younger generation identify as LGB.

the survey is only based on 320k households and filled in my the adult who got the survey.

I dunno about you but I certainly wasn't up for sharing my sexuality with my parents whilst I lived with them, so I would always have been marked down as straight on any survey that came through.

whereisthekey · 28/10/2021 13:54

on mumsnet ii have also seen several threads where bisexual people ask if they should disclose their sexuality to their partner (opposite sex) are told NO as it apparently would rock the boat for no reason. so again these people all go unknown and wouldn't be disclosing on any family survey either.

mustlovegin · 28/10/2021 14:45

we know it's a lot less than that identify as heterosexual now and will continue to do so

Why do you assume they will?

mordinvasnormandy · 28/10/2021 14:51

@mustlovegin

we know it's a lot less than that identify as heterosexual now and will continue to do so

Why do you assume they will?

It's a lot less taboo than even a few years ago.

whereisthekey · 28/10/2021 14:53

@mustlovegin there are still a lot of people not "out" due to there still being stigma attached to it. especially in the older generation and many ethnic minorities. as this stigma continues to hopefully get less, more people will be able to be open about it. so the number will rise from where they are now.
the only way it wouldn't increase is if you think every LGB person is already out and all their families happily filling in the census correctly about everyone's sexuality.

Fetarabbit · 28/10/2021 14:54

@doublecleansing

One of my friends is gay and in his 20s, I'm trying to word this in the right way because I don't want to offend anyone but my friend is someone who is what you could call "straight passing" in that people don't think he is gay unless he tells you he is. It annoys him that people assume he is straight and he has to come out to people. AIBU to think that it is pretty crap of society in assuming people's sexuality if they don't fit a stereotype. Why does society presume you are straight if you don't fit certain stereotypes of what society perceives what a gay man is normally?

I suppose conversely those who assume someone is gay because of some outdated and offensive stereotypes is just as problematic. People are assumed to be straight because the majority of people are, if the opposite was true people would come out as straight. Most people couldn't give two hoots unless they're looking to pursue a romantic relationship with someone whether they are straight or gay if they're people they are close enough to to come out to.

logsonlogsoff · 28/10/2021 15:16

‘Surveys’ on the numbers of LGBTQ+ people
Are notoriously inaccurate as for obvious reasons many of us gays don’t always want to or feel it’s safe to tick a box or fill in an official
Survey declaring their sexuality.

logsonlogsoff · 28/10/2021 15:30

‘ Deadringer

I am sure society doesn't give a fiddler's flute if he is straight or not. ’

If that was true then homophobia wouldn’t exist. Wouldn’t that be nice?

mustlovegin · 28/10/2021 16:50

don’t always want to or feel it’s safe to tick a box or fill in an official

I agree it's nobody's business, I don't tick any boxes either if I can help it

Gwenhwyfar · 28/10/2021 19:44

[quote whereisthekey]@mustlovegin there are still a lot of people not "out" due to there still being stigma attached to it. especially in the older generation and many ethnic minorities. as this stigma continues to hopefully get less, more people will be able to be open about it. so the number will rise from where they are now.
the only way it wouldn't increase is if you think every LGB person is already out and all their families happily filling in the census correctly about everyone's sexuality.[/quote]
I know someone who's camp as anything, but his parents don't know (or at least it's not acknowledged, could be that they do suspect).

Skysblue · 28/10/2021 22:23

Sounds like your friend is a bit touchy about it. People probably assume he’s straight because most people are straight. I don’t see why he has to ‘come out’ to people in casual conversation but if he desperately wants casual acquaintances to know his sexuality that’s up to him. Just mention something his ex-boyfriend said in passing. Like if I go to a bar with a female friend the men there will assume I’m single and ‘looking’ because god forbid a woman should go to a bar because she wants to buy a drink 🙄 and anyway it’s easy enough to mention DH in passing.

Danzig · 29/10/2021 00:26

@mustlovegin

don’t always want to or feel it’s safe to tick a box or fill in an official

I agree it's nobody's business, I don't tick any boxes either if I can help it

I'm guessing not out of fear or shame though.

Maybeoversensitive · 29/10/2021 08:40

Can understand the conflict
My partner gets read as gay, it leaves her open to much more likely get heckled in the street (which does still happen) but also people tend to be sensitive to her saying something about a female partner and adjusting their pronouns for that, people engage with her usually understanding that

I'm read usually as straight, this means I can be incognito in situations where it feels unsafe or at a disadvantage (Conservative clients etc) to be identified as gay. I get a lot more covert homophobia as people will talk negatively about it, or make homophobic comments whilst I'm present.

When I do then disclose sexuality there is a risk people I got on well with before feel a bit duped or dissappear when I mention a female partner, I notice that difference in how I get treated where as those people maybe don't engage with my partner in the first place. People also say things that assume that I'm not in a serious relationship, eg that I'm just playing, what a waste type thing, continue to hit on me but also don't treat our relationship the same as you'd treat a hetro one (there's something about it that people assume we are good friends, having a lovely time rather than serious romantic partners).

It's also hard for people to listen to it, I've lost count of the amount of times people have completely ignored the fact I'm using she, and keep asking what my boyfriend/husband does. In general that's annoying but sometimes I've had to really call people like insurance agents (because they marked her down as male making the insurance not valid and weren't picking up any form of hint), travel agents trying to send me to places that aren't lgbt friendly and not understanding why I'm "saying no to beautiful places", or even medical staff as it effects health needs( also shows they really aren't listening)

When people treat me as straight, talk to me about my husband etc it can then feel really unsafe to correct people.