Being gay and "Straight Passing"

[doublecleansing]

One of my friends is gay and in his 20s, I'm trying to word this in the right way because I don't want to offend anyone but my friend is someone who is what you could call "straight passing" in that people don't think he is gay unless he tells you he is. It annoys him that people assume he is straight and he has to come out to people. AIBU to think that it is pretty crap of society in assuming people's sexuality if they don't fit a stereotype. Why does society presume you are straight if you don't fit certain stereotypes of what society perceives what a gay man is normally?

@SoniaFouler did you read what their comment was in response to in the first place ?

Why doesn't he just wear a badge like many gay people do at work if he wants to let people know, but doesn't want to dress stereotypically and apparently doesn't want to have to tell people?

Is that a serious suggestion?! Gay people should wear badges so people can tell who they are?!

@Boood

Why doesn't he just wear a badge like many gay people do at work if he wants to let people know, but doesn't want to dress stereotypically and apparently doesn't want to have to tell people?

Is that a serious suggestion?! Gay people should wear badges so people can tell who they are?!

It's not us who want to know who they are it's HIM who is complaining that people don't know his gay while ALSO apparently not wanting to tell him. Most of the gay people I know wear LGBT badges. It's their choice. I'm not asking them to wear them!

[quote Leafygreen1]@SoniaFouler did you read what their comment was in response to in the first place ?[/quote]
Yes, it was in response to “gay people have been having children forever ”. Which is true, gay people have been having children forever, for the reasons Gwen laid out. They certainly weren’t procreating with each other, and still aren’t. And certainly weren’t adopting, fostering or having IVF since “forever” either as this is a relatively new thing as gay rights have advanced. What’s wrong in what Gwen said exactly?

Honestly gay / straight / poly or what ever I don’t mind. It’s kind of a non event.

@SoniaFouler the conversation evolved from aa poster stating:

"If it was nearer 50% then in all liklihood we would have died out as a species long before we built civilization and complex religions that could oppress gay people."

my comment was that if there were 50% non heterosexual people in the world that wouldn't lead to the end of the human race as suggested.. as we have children no problem, and always have.

What difference does it make if people think he is gay/straight/bisexual/whatever?

How does that impact his day to day life?

Unless he is looking for a partner, I can't see it has any impact 🤷‍♀️

[quote Leafygreen1]@Gwenhwyfar as a lesbian with two children and with many lesbian friends who also have children I can assure you there are plenty of ways we procreate and we aren't risking an end to the human race.[/quote]
But you did not procreate as two lesbians without male input did you? You either acted in a way that was not in accordance with your declared sexuality or you used artificial means.

My point was, as another poster has repeated for the hard of reading, that gay couples cannot conceive naturally within that relationship.
Of course, they can conceive with a member of the opposite sex, artificially, or adopt.

I am so confused.

Why would he expect a a elderly relative to presume he may or not be gay? And word leaving him the ring in a more gender less way? Seems he is internalising this. Does he feel not part of the lbgt community or that he doesn't fit there, so any presumption he is straight he takes as confirmation of that?

My daughter is figuring out her sexuality. Her current partner is a transman. Other partners have been women but is attracted to some men. But she came out to me at 15. It was no biggy to anyone. However, I wouldn't have presumed she maybe gay and made sure I always presented tall of her future partners in a genderless way. I do now. But she never felt I wouldn't be ok with her sexuality because I didn't go to great pains to remove gender from these converstations. She knows I am not homophobic and give no shits about who people sleep with as long as its all consensual.

I am not entirely straight myself. However, I don't have a label and don't get upset if people presume I am one sexuality over another.

Since the vast majority of people are straight, why would the elderly relative assumed he might be gay?

I get the impression is that if people guessed your friend was gay, that would offend him too.

Gay men do not act in a certain way. They are just men and all have their own personalities and express themselves in many different ways. Just like people who don't identify as a gay man.

What does he think a 'gay passing man' acts like?

@MrMrsJones

What difference does it make if people think he is gay/straight/bisexual/whatever?

How does that impact his day to day life?

Unless he is looking for a partner, I can't see it has any impact 🤷‍♀️

Many single people are looking for a partner so if this young man is single, it probably has an impact! It's also to make it easier for him to interact with people, I suppose. Easier for him to talk about his plans, etc.

@FrankButchersDickieBow

I cant think of any occasion where I have met someone and wondered who they like to have sex with. Bizarre.

Exactly this. None of my business tbh.

@Gwenhwyfar but so what? however we choose to procreate we are still able to, so even if something really odd happened and the whole world turned gay over night -we could/ would still keep having children in one way or another.

@Gwenhwyfar how though?

Apart from looking for a partner in which case he would express his preference

He can talk about his future plans easily...he don't need to disclose his sexually to do this

[quote Leafygreen1]@SoniaFouler the conversation evolved from aa poster stating:

"If it was nearer 50% then in all liklihood we would have died out as a species long before we built civilization and complex religions that could oppress gay people."

my comment was that if there were 50% non heterosexual people in the world that wouldn't lead to the end of the human race as suggested.. as we have children no problem, and always have.[/quote]
I don’t agree with that line of thought and think it would.

“as we have children no problem, and always have.

Yes, and the “always have” part refers to what Gwen was saying - that gay couples have had children throughout history by masquerading in heterosexual relationships. Unless you’re suggesting that gay couples were raising children together by means of surrogacy or adoption in the ‘70s and years and years before that?

"And certainly weren’t adopting, fostering or having IVF since “forever” either as this is a relatively new thing as gay rights have advanced."

Well, I think informal adoptions to gay people may have been happening in the past eg a woman's husband goes to work away and her 'friend' moves in and looks after the children.
But yes, the main point is that people of the same sex cannot conceive naturally. I don't see how anyone can disagree with that.

My friend doesn't want to be assumed gay but at the same time doesn't want to be assumed straight
He's in luck then because most people have a very limited interest in others' personal lives, unless they are romantically interested themselves.
Small talk is just that. Small. None of his passing acquaintances is up at night wondering if he prefers Martha or Arthur.

"even if something really odd happened and the whole world turned gay over night -we could/ would still keep having children in one way or another."

I the world was 100% gay, everyone would have to conceive artificially and I don't believe that many people would be bothered to. The birth rate would decrease dramatically.

@SoniaFouler I'm sure there are many gay women in history who have had children (with men) because they wanted children.. same as we do now. they just would have preferred to have raised them in their happy lesbian relationships rather than carrying on a pretense of being in a relationship with the man.

I get it.

My dd is a lesbian, she 'comes out' all the time because people assume she is straight.

Until she came out I didn't really think about how heteronormative the world is, but I see it now.

The world is still a very homophobic place. It shouldn't matter to people but it absolutely does for some reason.

If we were all a little more neutral in our language it would certainly help.

[quote MrMrsJones]@Gwenhwyfar how though?

Apart from looking for a partner in which case he would express his preference

He can talk about his future plans easily...he don't need to disclose his sexually to do this[/quote]
A lot of people find it hard to talk about their life without being able to talk about their sexuality. It's one of the reasons why some gay rights activists believe people should be able to be open about their sexuality at work. They don't want to have to lie about what they're doing at the weekend etc.
I can totally understand why he thinks his life would be easier if people knew he was gay, but I don't understand why he's annoyed people assume he's straight as that is the majority and he's never told people otherwise.

@Gwenhwyfar

"And certainly weren’t adopting, fostering or having IVF since “forever” either as this is a relatively new thing as gay rights have advanced."

Well, I think informal adoptions to gay people may have been happening in the past eg a woman's husband goes to work away and her 'friend' moves in and looks after the children.
But yes, the main point is that people of the same sex cannot conceive naturally. I don't see how anyone can disagree with that.

Informal perhaps but I was going by your use of “out” in your previous comment, plus the way the conversation had stemmed from alluding that lesbian and gay people in committed relationships have been having children and raising them together since “forever”. I don’t see how anybody can disagree with that either. It’s fact.

"Until she came out I didn't really think about how heteronormative the world is, but I see it now.

The world is still a very homophobic place."

Heteronomativity (seeing is not the same as homophobia.

[quote Leafygreen1]@SoniaFouler I'm sure there are many gay women in history who have had children (with men) because they wanted children.. same as we do now. they just would have preferred to have raised them in their happy lesbian relationships rather than carrying on a pretense of being in a relationship with the man.[/quote]
Yes, exactly. So when Gwen said Many of them were having children because they were in the closet and I agreed, which part of that were you disagreeing with us about when you’ve just said the same thing?

Heteronomativity (seeing is not the same as homophobia

They were 2 separate observations.

The world is still very homophobic.

I think people are maybe missing what’s actually happened here to this person. An elderly relative has passed away and he has been given her wedding ring ‘to give to your wife when you’re married’ when he hadn’t told anyone he was gay - presumably as he hadn’t told anyone at this point he didn’t want them to know!

It’s not as if people at work are constantly hounding him asking ‘where is your female partner?’ And presuming he’s straight for no reason. It seems in this case it’s all a bit of something over nothing.