Being gay and "Straight Passing"

[doublecleansing]

One of my friends is gay and in his 20s, I'm trying to word this in the right way because I don't want to offend anyone but my friend is someone who is what you could call "straight passing" in that people don't think he is gay unless he tells you he is. It annoys him that people assume he is straight and he has to come out to people. AIBU to think that it is pretty crap of society in assuming people's sexuality if they don't fit a stereotype. Why does society presume you are straight if you don't fit certain stereotypes of what society perceives what a gay man is normally?

What did he expect his uncle to say? “Here’s your Nan’s wedding ring to give to your future wife, unless you are gay or asexual”.

I also agree that it was a very kind gesture, which has bizarrely been interpreted as a desire/willingness to offend. It's a memento of a deceased loved one offered/intended to be treasured by him - whether worn on a (theoretical) future wife's finger, kept in a special box or whatever. It's just a phrase.

It's like when a person thanks somebody for helping them out and gives them a fiver/tenner with the words "Here, buy yourself a drink" - really, honestly, nobody is going to object/care/know if the recipient spends it on a sandwich, book, phone top-up or anything else at all instead of a drink.

@SoniaFouler thanks for trying to tell me what I was saying, however you are wrong as that definitely wasn't what I was saying at all.. I've gone back through my posts in case there was a typo you have picked up on but no.. I have never said gay people were historically having children TOGETHER. simply homosexual humans were having children by one means or another.

Well the uncle made several assumptions besides your friend being straight: that he would one day meet someone who agreed to marry him, that they both agreed on the tradition of exchanging rings, that the ring was to their taste...

[quote Leafygreen1]@SoniaFouler thanks for trying to tell me what I was saying, however you are wrong as that definitely wasn't what I was saying at all.. I've gone back through my posts in case there was a typo you have picked up on but no.. I have never said gay people were historically having children TOGETHER. simply homosexual humans were having children by one means or another.[/quote]
Leafygreen1
i never really get this argument..
being gay doesn't make you sterile. gay people have existed but been having children forever.. doesn't change who they would prefer to live their lives with and have recreational sex with.

Gwenhwyfar
Many of them were having children because they were in the closet. Out gay people who live their lives as gays/lesbians cannot conceive naturally in their main relationship.

Leafygreen1
as a lesbian with two children and with many lesbian friends who also have children I can assure you there are plenty of ways we procreate and we aren't risking an end to the human race.

SoniaFouler
Did you read what Gwen said? Gwen said a female/female or male/male relationship cannot procreate naturally [together, with each other] in their main relationship. That is 100% true.

Leafygreen1
SoniaFouler did you read what their comment was in response to in the first place ?

SoniaFouler
Yes, it was in response to “gay people have been having children forever ”. Which is true, gay people have been having children forever, for the reasons Gwen laid out. They certainly weren’t procreating with each other, and still aren’t. And certainly weren’t adopting, fostering or having IVF since “forever” either as this is a relatively new thing as gay rights have advanced. What’s wrong in what Gwen said exactly?

And so on, and so on…

Whilst you may not have been the one who initially said together, you were the one that kept insisting they historically did when Gwen just pointed out that that wasn’t true.

Presumably some people might assume he was straight unless told otherwise, simply because it's statistically more likely. How does he know people assume he's straight, anyway?

A bit like... if you meet a white person with an English accent in an English town, you would probably be correct if you assumed they were English. However, they might not be. Because not everyone who can speak English with an English accent is actually English.

My friend doesn't want to be assumed gay but at the same time doesn't want to be assumed straight

People make all kinds of assumptions about others, it's human nature, I don't think it can be easily avoided

Eh?

People will be assuming he's straight as it is statistically far more likely he is straight than anything else.

the whole point is the world wouldn't end if 50% of people weren't 100% straight. gay and bi people can / will have kids too. that's all

Of course not but let's be honest, procreation is that bit harder for homosexual couples. It often requires a bit of intervention (egg or sperm donation, IVF, an agreement with another party of the right sex, adoption etc). Whereas the majority of heterosexual couples will simply have sex in the course of their relationship and thus at some point produce kids.

Why are people so interested in other people sexuality? I do not care and am not interested in what consenting adults do to each other behind closed doors

Bashfulclam Exactly, it is no ones business and no one should ever have to explain their sexuality to anyone else.

A bit like... if you meet a white person with an English accent in an English town, you would probably be correct if you assumed they were English. However, they might not be. Because not everyone who can speak English with an English accent is actually English.

That’s me! People always presume I’m British when I’m in fact half British and 1 quarter other European country and 1 quarter another European county. They are so surprised when they find out I can speak two other languages. So presumptuous of people, it drives me insane

People make all kinds of assumptions about others, it's human nature, I don't think it can be easily avoided

Exactly. I'd be very surprised if the OP's friend could claim that he never makes a single assumption or guess about anybody when he meets them, even subcinsciously.

Everybody assumes I am straight, unless I specifically mention I have a wife.... it doesn't bother me either way! I definitely don't see being a lesbian as any kind of identity.

Being gay and not fitting a narrow stereotype ( ie camp or butch or whatever) does mean having to come out over and over again.
It does get a bit tiring! I’ve just had to do again, in a new job at the age of 50. A few of my team really don’t care, a few are in the middle - a it curious, but at least 2 have an issue with it though they’re trying to cover that up.
It’s never quite okay- I don’t t get annoyed that people assume I’m Straight, but it would be easier for me if they didn’t.

Also depends where you live I think, I live in a town with a huge LGBT+ community so people here make less assumptions about each other … but my new job is in a more conservative town with staff from other conservative backgrounds.
Which is why I can see the issues with 2 of them, 1 in particular, heading towards me. She’s now not comfortable being with me on her own - like in the work kitchen, in a conference room - I think she’s worried that people might think she’s gay if she’s with me too much.

She was fine before she found out I have. Wife and 2 kids. Now she’s super awkward.

logsonlogsoff

"Being gay and not fitting a narrow stereotype ( ie camp or butch or whatever) does mean having to come out over and over again.
It does get a bit tiring! I’ve just had to do again, in a new job at the age of 50. "

Surely no different to being vegetarian or vegan, any time you have food it comes up, and then most people are fine, some people quiz you about it, some people declare that they are almost vegetarian themselves as they only eat meat x amount of times, others take it as an offence -" you aren't one of those militant veggies are you that's going to lecture me", other waffle about veggies that have passed them off, how meat is better etc etc. Most people are fine, some are dicks, this is like any time where part of your lifestyle, personality, personal expression differs, and hopefully I think as time goes on more things are becoming the norm.

‘ Surely no different to being vegetarian or vegan,’
Exactly the same, sure haven’t vegetarians only recently been allowed marriage equality and to adopt children. And there are still dozens of countries where being a vegetarian carries the dearth penalty…

@TinaYouFatLard

“Society” will tend to presume a person is straight because of the majority of people are straight.

I’m not sure what your friend wants. This kind of attention seeking nonsense is what leads to all the “state your pronouns” bullshit.

This

Sorry, posted too soon. There was something posted online a couple of weeks ago about a person who identified as none gender specific. They went into a shop and were asked to produce a form of ID for the purchase. On producing a driving licence, the shop assistant innocently referred to them in the gender stated on the licence. The result was that this person flew into a rage and tried to get the assistant sacked for misgendering them.

I don’t have any problem with anyone wanting to identify as anything, being gay, straight or anything else, but I do have a problem with this kind of entitled behaviour. Quite honestly, I don’t see that it matters what society thinks. As a heterosexual female, I don’t generally announce my sexual proclivities unless the situation warrants it. Don’t see why it should be any different for gay people. Or am I being too simplistic ?

@Rosscameasdoody

Sorry, posted too soon. There was something posted online a couple of weeks ago about a person who identified as none gender specific. They went into a shop and were asked to produce a form of ID for the purchase. On producing a driving licence, the shop assistant innocently referred to them in the gender stated on the licence. The result was that this person flew into a rage and tried to get the assistant sacked for misgendering them.

I don’t have any problem with anyone wanting to identify as anything, being gay, straight or anything else, but I do have a problem with this kind of entitled behaviour. Quite honestly, I don’t see that it matters what society thinks. As a heterosexual female, I don’t generally announce my sexual proclivities unless the situation warrants it. Don’t see why it should be any different for gay people. Or am I being too simplistic ?

Yes you are. Gay = same SEX attracted, nothing to do with gender. I know the sort of entitled behaviour you’re referring to and have witnessed it myself a few times. More often than not, the people that make a big song and dance about their gender identity are actually fellow heterosexuals of yours, nowt to do with us.

@logsonlogsoff

Also depends where you live I think, I live in a town with a huge LGBT+ community so people here make less assumptions about each other … but my new job is in a more conservative town with staff from other conservative backgrounds. Which is why I can see the issues with 2 of them, 1 in particular, heading towards me. She’s now not comfortable being with me on her own - like in the work kitchen, in a conference room - I think she’s worried that people might think she’s gay if she’s with me too much.

You think a colleague is avoiding you because people will think she’s gay if she’s alone with you? That seems so unlikely.

It is possible she dislikes you, I just doubt she’s avoiding you so people don’t think she’s gay.

[quote Leafygreen1]@soniafouler

" 50% of the world are probably not straight"

someone disagreed with that as they said the population would died out..

I said it wouldn't die out as none straight people can get pregnant no problem..

and you agree with me that indeed they can /do/have throughout history. so what on earth are u arguing against?

is to say..[/quote]
Something like 97% of humans identify as heterosexual. Of the 3% who are homosexual and bisexual, the majority are bisexual. And most bisexual people have mainly long-term relationships with people of the opposite sex. People are assumed to be heterosexual or likely to be in a heterosexual relationship because that actually is the default.

I am sure society doesn't give a fiddler's flute if he is straight or not. Most people are though, so it's not a ridiculous assumption.