Being gay and "Straight Passing"

[doublecleansing]

One of my friends is gay and in his 20s, I'm trying to word this in the right way because I don't want to offend anyone but my friend is someone who is what you could call "straight passing" in that people don't think he is gay unless he tells you he is. It annoys him that people assume he is straight and he has to come out to people. AIBU to think that it is pretty crap of society in assuming people's sexuality if they don't fit a stereotype. Why does society presume you are straight if you don't fit certain stereotypes of what society perceives what a gay man is normally?

It sounds like your friend thinks other people he meets care about his sexuality. It also sounds like he gets all hot and bothered that these other people should care.

I have a fiend who is gay, but doesn't declare it (frankly why should he), he doesn't get upset or cross when new people he meets chat him up or suggest a fix up with a female friend, he just politely declines and sometimes says why, sometimes doesn't.

If he doesn't it's usually because at that point the other person starts going through al their other gay friends and suggesting blind dates as though he's incapable of meeting someone all by himself like most people of whatever sexuality are perfectly capable of.

[quote Leafygreen1]@Porcupineintherough I didn't say homosexual just not heterosexual. Bisexuality is most likely.

But even homosexual people could essentially "mate" once if needed and then choose to live the rest of their lives in same sex relationships[/quote]
I’d say queer is even more likelier than bisexuality, where queer can range from anything from exclusively heterosexual with brightly coloured hair to “I kissed a member of the same sex once and it wasn’t entirely unpleasant so I’m not actually straight”. It’s the 2021 view of “everyone gets a prize”. Tedious, not to mention “othering” and downright insulting to the gay community.

I suspect your friend is irritated by people not thinking he is gay but if they did he’d be irritated by that too.
I mean, how on Earth would he know what people assume?
Quite a few heterosexual men would take umbrage if you asked “do you have a husband” if we assumed everyone had a spouse and that it was equally likely to be a male spouse as a female spouse.
Not saying they should be - but they would be.
So if someone has to ask the question- why I don’t know- neutral terms obviously make sense.

But that’s not what bothers your friend - right?
He seems to think people shouldn’t associate gay men with camp acting. Most people don’t. Nowadays, in this part of the world.
Older generations might.
They might not.
In 5 century BC in Athens men had young male lovers and wives and sex with female slaves … young boy love with grown men was the highest form of love according to some philosophers at the time.

There are plenty of assumptions people make about other people all the time (it’s sort of how society functions).

One of those is that “straight acting” is a thing. Another is that gay men are only ever sexually attracted to other men. I’ve been sexually assaulted (by a consultant in a hospital) who is married to a man, not very obviously “camp” etc etc. He certainly could tell your friend a thing or two about society’s assumptions of gay men.

But it’s hardly groundbreaking to realise that stereotypes are precisely just that.. stereotypes

I think we have a long way to go as a society in terms of diversity and tolerance.

I'm a single parent. Out of the total number of parents out there 1 in 4 are single parents. Out of that number the majority are women.

I mention this, as society is rigged not to take single parents into account. Some people are accepting towards us and don't operate with stereotypes. But a great many people do.

We are exlucded often from social gatherings because it is automatically assumed we are looking for a (partner). There are many other examples.

The fact that we may not be interested, or lesbian, gay bisexual or whatever doesn't seem to occur to many people. In fact with many people we are not supposed to have any sexuality at all!

There are many, many different biases in society.
The best we can do is reflect on the ones we have and try to change them out of respect for others. Try to understand how other people might experience society. With compassion.

Likewise there are many, many sterotypes out there about people on benefits...and on it goes...

A friend of mine is more stereotypically gay and gets a huge amount of hassle when he is out and about he has been frequently threatened with violence as well as the horrible slurs directed towards him. Our society still has a very long way to go.

Why is the friend so bothered about what sexuality other people think he is. Self obsessed!

Some people enjoy being perpetually offended.

I don’t get it to be honest. Just because someone is camp doesn’t make me presume they are gay. Just like I wouldn’t assume a woman is gay because she’s a ‘tomboy’. But I’ve seen plenty of gay people on tv and social media perpetuating these stereotypes themselves, although often done in jest. I don’t really think about people’s sexualities when I meet them - that would be odd surely? Whether someone is gay or straight or single or in a relationship isn’t the first thing on my radar when I meet someone. You’re friend needs to get over himself.

My friend doesn't want to be assumed gay but at the same time doesn't want to be assumed straight

He sounds like a PITA TBH

On why it matters —

Here’s the thing. If you’re gay, you tend to know as a kid. I knew when I was about 8 and most of my friends started to have an awareness around a similar age.

Part of the process of establishing that aspect of yourself is the way it ‘rubs up against’ straight people’s preconceptions. The whole of society is designed by and for straight people so it can feel like you don’t ‘fit’ in any way. It can be very alienating.

This is why there’s a culture — well, there are numerous cultures really — within which gay people often orient themselves.

So technically yes it’s about ‘who you have sex with’ but in reality it’s a lot deeper and more fundamental than that, because as a gay person you feel like you’re defining yourself against the whole of society, not just who you date/have sex with/marry.

Loads of people assume I’m a lesbian when I’m straight. I’m not “girlie” and I like sport and drink larger. Doesn’t bother me at all. When you’re happy and confident with who you are, other people’s assumptions about you are just water off a ducks back.

Presumably your friend is a totally 100% assumption-free zone himself, OP?

but that does not mean he has to stop being a normal man

FYI all gay men are normal men.

I’m bi. I never talk about it unless I’m interested in someone sexually. I’m still normal.

Most people aren’t really thinking about anyone else’s sexuality. Statistically, any random person you meet is probably heterosexual. If you have to take a guess, without any other evidence, that is the best guess.

I'm told regularly by people - once they get to know me usually - that they assumed I'm gay. And a vegetarian interestingly. Lots of people do a double take when I say I'm married to a man.

I am a vegetarian but am completely hetero. It happened last night when I bumped into a colleague I only see occasionally on zoom and introduced her to my husband. So even on a grainy virtual meeting with a distant colleague, I'm somehow giving off a certain impression.

Doesn't bother me of course but I do wonder wtf the reason is.

Not sure what to think really. I’d naturally assume someone was straight unless they mentioned a same sex partner. I worked with a guy for nearly a year, sat right behind him, and only found out he was gay when his engagement card went round the office and I saw the name of his fiancé. I don’t know how a gay person is ‘supposed’ to act unless they’re putting it on for the telly 😂

@PinkiOcelot

In this day and age (or any day and she really) does anyone actually care?

Yes, of course people care. People would probably like to know if they have a chance with him for one thing. Why doesn't he just wear a badge like many gay people do at work if he wants to let people know, but doesn't want to dress stereotypically and apparently doesn't want to have to tell people?

I have a medical condition which affects around 1 in 350 people. Should I be offended because people assume I don’t have it? (It’s an invisible disability)

Where does this madness end 🤷‍♀️ He sounds like an attention seeking snowflake. Is he vegan?

Most people are and we make assumptions based on appearance all the time on things like sexuality, gender, nationality, so long as when corrected, people accept him that's all that matters isn't it? I am trying now I have DS to refer to things like "girlfriend or boyfriend" when talking about people's prospective partners, but it is a conscious effort I'm making to not assume people's sexuality.

[quote Leafygreen1]@MatildaIThink

i never really get this argument..
being gay doesn't make you sterile. gay people have existed but been having children forever.. doesn't change who they would prefer to live their lives with and have recreational sex with.[/quote]
Many of them were having children because they were in the closet. Out gay people who live their lives as gays/lesbians cannot conceive naturally in their main relationship.

@FrankButchersDickieBow

I cant think of any occasion where I have met someone and wondered who they like to have sex with. Bizarre.

This is a bit like 'I don't see colour'. You've never wondered whether someone is gay or straight or made an assumption about anybody? I just don't believe that.

It’s not that hard not to assume.

Assuming people are heterosexual makes people who aren’t feel ‘othered’, excluded, overlooked.

I complained once in healthcare setting when I referenced my partner and the HCP kept referring to my husband. It is a simple basic courtesy to use the same language as the patient and not assume partner = husband. And I say this as a married straight woman!

@Gwenhwyfar as a lesbian with two children and with many lesbian friends who also have children I can assure you there are plenty of ways we procreate and we aren't risking an end to the human race.

[quote Leafygreen1]@Gwenhwyfar as a lesbian with two children and with many lesbian friends who also have children I can assure you there are plenty of ways we procreate and we aren't risking an end to the human race.[/quote]
Did you read what Gwen said? Gwen said a female/female or male/male relationship cannot procreate naturally [together, with each other] in their main relationship. That is 100% true.