Suddenly excluded from friendship group

[timelord92]

Me and my partner met at a sports activity and met a lot of like minded people along the way who we started going to other activities with such as camping, meals out, parties, etc. We have done this for about 7 years with about 10 people with their partners too.

We have 2 young children so havent been able to get out and about as much as we were able to before kids but we do still go with everyone when we can make it.

I like everyone in the group apart from one girl (let's call her Sarah) who I just cant get along with but i've always invited when I've organised something as I don't like anyone being excluded. Everything was always fine.

One of the girls organised an afternoon tea and while there someone mentioned being excited about going to Sarah's 30th birthday meal in a few weeks. This is the first I'd heard about it but i didn't say anything and Sarah didn't look ashamed or anything. I just let it go. I think I was too shocked to say anything and didn't want to cause a scene in front of everyone else.

Then someone got in touch with my DP asking if he was going on David's stag do (Sarah's partner - who we both met at our original sporting activity) as he will book the room for the 2 of them. We hadn't heard anything about it. We got given a card with the date of the wedding but haven't received the actual official invite. My DP was then added to this stag group but my partner doesn't want to go as he feels like he wasn't wanted in the first place.

I thought if there's a stag do then there must be a hen too and when I asked someone, there was a hen organised and one of our other friends is bridesmaid and is organising the room/hotel for that so I got the feeling we were being purposely excluded.

I've logged on to Facebook this morning and Sarah has put up loads of pictures of her 30th birthday meal with everyone there apart from us.

My DP has been friends with 3 of the fellas who went to it for 30 odd years but they didn't say anything although they might have assumed that we were invited.

My question now tho is what do we do now? We are still invited to events from everyone else which is good but I don't want to see Sarah and David now and they always go to these events. My natural reaction is not to want to go cos they are there but that is being quite childish. On the other hand I don't want to speak to them either. The worst thing is sarah makes a point of coming over to me and talking to me so I can't really avoid her. I did notice at the afternoon tea that she kept asking me questions but when I answered, she'd interrupt me and say something else or would ask the waitress something. I found it quite rude.

Then there is the issue of whether we invite them to anything that we organise or not. I'm thinking not but should we take the higher ground and not be like them?

Why should she invite someone she doesn't like to her personal events? Someone who (obviously) makes it clear that they don't like her!! Get over yourself OP!
Seriously. I don't know what I just read. It makes no sense. Oh my God.

It clearly became obvious that you don't like her. You maybe more unpleasant in group settings than you realise with this woman. Well obviously so, if she has excluded you. Maybe she's just not that into you OP?

They’re trying to cut you out. Don’t let them. If you are organising general group events then include them (only if they include you) but after this I would organise a book club/wine night at your place for something personal to you and invite the ladies but not her. You need to make it clear you aren’t a walkover. Don’t say a word to anyone about her. If anyone on the night says why wasn’t she invited then just say “oh, I’m not sure. We aren’t really in contact anymore. I didn’t get invited to her birthday or hen party” and shrug and change the subject.

I’ve been on the receiving end of this too and it’s deeply unpleasant

I think we have all been on the 'receiving end' of our friends friend, who we don't even like, not inviting us to their birthday party or hen night. I imagine it's fairly common.

I haven't been invited to hundreds of hen nights of people I don't like and never taken offence once.

Even less so if I wanted to be invited just to have the satisfaction of turning the invite down.

@beautifulview

They’re trying to cut you out. Don’t let them. If you are organising general group events then include them (only if they include you) but after this I would organise a book club/wine night at your place for something personal to you and invite the ladies but not her. You need to make it clear you aren’t a walkover. Don’t say a word to anyone about her. If anyone on the night says why wasn’t she invited then just say “oh, I’m not sure. We aren’t really in contact anymore. I didn’t get invited to her birthday or hen party” and shrug and change the subject.

Why encourage OP to escalate with the wider group? Sarah, who OP hates, invited OP to her wedding, she just didn't invite her to the more intimate hen party and birthday. No need to start involving everyone else.

Its ok not like someone and maybe Sarah mutually doesn't like you or gets the vibe you don't like her. If the others stop inviting you to their events then yes you'd have a right to feel the way you do. She's not purposely excluding a friend from your friendship group but you from her events thats all. I imagine it doesn't feel great but better than attending and being false.

@beautifulview

They’re trying to cut you out. Don’t let them. If you are organising general group events then include them (only if they include you) but after this I would organise a book club/wine night at your place for something personal to you and invite the ladies but not her. You need to make it clear you aren’t a walkover. Don’t say a word to anyone about her. If anyone on the night says why wasn’t she invited then just say “oh, I’m not sure. We aren’t really in contact anymore. I didn’t get invited to her birthday or hen party” and shrug and change the subject.

The other people are…. Grown assed adults

If they genuinely like the op and her husband, they won’t allow another couple to cut out the op and her husband

Fine to accept invitations without the op being invited but if they like the op - Irving should stop them from inviting the op to the events they arrange.

If Sarah manages to get the others to start cutting the op out, it’s because they weren’t that bothered about the op in the first place.

True friends don’t cut a true friend out because someone someone else is choosing to

"oftenitjinkaboitit"

They did these invites through WhatsApp rather than the usual method of Facebook as I think on WhatsApp you csnt see other people who have been added unless you actively look. On Facebook it comes up with who else has been invited. So I think people have thought we have been invited in the first place.

But this isn’t just a normal social
Event they’ve excluded you from. It’s their respective hen and stag nights. Assuming they won’t be inviting you to the wedding and why should they because you clearly both rub each other up the wrong way. I wouldn’t want someone like you at my wedding!

I think you also need to accept when you have young kids that you aren’t as exciting for others and a transition often happens.

Interesting thread. My take is that OP is in the group more as an appendage to her DH? (was the group already in existance before you met your DH?)

It's fine not to invite people to your own 30th or Hen Night. It stings if a whole group of mutual friends go and you're the exception, but all you can do is smile and wave, and if anyone assumes you were there or they're all talking about it when you're present, you can just go to the loo, get a round in, look on your phone, fake attentive listening but be secretly going through your to do list... whatever. The worst thing is to huff and puff and "i wasn't invited" although that is an acceptable answer if someone asks you directly.

And group events? If you are hosting a group specific event i think you have to bite the bullet and invite everyone. If it's your birthday, however, you are under no obligation to invite Sarah (bearing in mind that her OH is your DHs close friend, so she might end up as a +1 if it's DHs birthday or something)

You are under no obligation to play her games where she makes a bee line for you and asks questions. Just give the TL;DR and say "i was going to the bar/loo/buffet" whatever and get away.

More problematic, I think, is the oversight (?) with the stag do if your DH was left out by accident, fair enough, but a friend of 30 years not inviting you? maybe that's an issue, maybe he didn't invite because he knows enough about DH not to ask because he knows it's a birthday weekend?

my own TL;DR: smile and wave.

@Brefugee

Interesting thread. My take is that OP is in the group more as an appendage to her DH? (was the group already in existance before you met your DH?)

It's fine not to invite people to your own 30th or Hen Night. It stings if a whole group of mutual friends go and you're the exception, but all you can do is smile and wave, and if anyone assumes you were there or they're all talking about it when you're present, you can just go to the loo, get a round in, look on your phone, fake attentive listening but be secretly going through your to do list... whatever. The worst thing is to huff and puff and "i wasn't invited" although that is an acceptable answer if someone asks you directly.

And group events? If you are hosting a group specific event i think you have to bite the bullet and invite everyone. If it's your birthday, however, you are under no obligation to invite Sarah (bearing in mind that her OH is your DHs close friend, so she might end up as a +1 if it's DHs birthday or something)

You are under no obligation to play her games where she makes a bee line for you and asks questions. Just give the TL;DR and say "i was going to the bar/loo/buffet" whatever and get away.

More problematic, I think, is the oversight (?) with the stag do if your DH was left out by accident, fair enough, but a friend of 30 years not inviting you? maybe that's an issue, maybe he didn't invite because he knows enough about DH not to ask because he knows it's a birthday weekend?

my own TL;DR: smile and wave.

I agree with this and said up-thread that the DH made a mistake refusing the belated invite to the stag do - as I think the group noticed he was missing from the list, likely mentioned it and pressed Dave to send a belated invite - and your DH looks sour not to go … because now he is flouncing from the group rather than Dave.

I also think that your DH needs the group more than you - they were originally HIS friends of 30 years which is a lot to lose.

You can’t make old friends. I hope he sees them outside of the group and nurtures these friendships. You will be fine because you will expand you circle with Mum friends through baby groups, nursery and school.

You do sound a bit frazzled and it is concerning when you say that you will find it hard to be civil in the group - try to value and nurture this group with dignity for your DH benefit more than yours. They are HIS lifelong friends.

How you respond will probably determine whether or not you remain friends with the other members of the group.
Barbed comments, tension, moodiness, pettiness - you will exclude yourselves

Accept that Sarah every bloody invite not to invite someone she doesn’t rub along with well to her 30th birthday party… and you’ll probably be fine

* you say that you will find it hard to be civil in the group*

Who wants someone like this in their friendship group

It’s done and dusted OP. I’d say that you’ve excluded yourself

@Brefugee

Interesting thread. My take is that OP is in the group more as an appendage to her DH? (was the group already in existance before you met your DH?)

It's fine not to invite people to your own 30th or Hen Night. It stings if a whole group of mutual friends go and you're the exception, but all you can do is smile and wave, and if anyone assumes you were there or they're all talking about it when you're present, you can just go to the loo, get a round in, look on your phone, fake attentive listening but be secretly going through your to do list... whatever. The worst thing is to huff and puff and "i wasn't invited" although that is an acceptable answer if someone asks you directly.

And group events? If you are hosting a group specific event i think you have to bite the bullet and invite everyone. If it's your birthday, however, you are under no obligation to invite Sarah (bearing in mind that her OH is your DHs close friend, so she might end up as a +1 if it's DHs birthday or something)

You are under no obligation to play her games where she makes a bee line for you and asks questions. Just give the TL;DR and say "i was going to the bar/loo/buffet" whatever and get away.

More problematic, I think, is the oversight (?) with the stag do if your DH was left out by accident, fair enough, but a friend of 30 years not inviting you? maybe that's an issue, maybe he didn't invite because he knows enough about DH not to ask because he knows it's a birthday weekend?

my own TL;DR: smile and wave.

No the group wasn't in existence before I met DH. DH knows 3 couples from the group 30 years. A few of them started a sports activity which included DP before he met me but the main group dynamics of going camping didn't get going until we were already in a relationship. I was one of the main organisers of events too at the time. However, I've took more of a back seat since my kids were born a few years ago. There are other people who will come for walks or meals out from time to time but the 'core' couples if u like of the 10 people are the ones who do most activities together.

My DP isn't Daves close friend. We both know him the same as everyone else. I was friendly with him at first and I brought my DP in more when I started being in a relationship with him.

It may be that I am relegated to being just DPs partner as he still goes to the original sports activity while I stay at home looking after the kids tho.

What do you think about him turning down the stag do - was that wise?

Has this thread helped you separate out the 30th Bday/hen from other group events? Do you feel less sour about it now?

How will you progress? Do you feel able to interact without tension?

As a PP said group dynamics can easily become shifted by one person changing the 'rules' by excluding someone from the group. Like families, people are invited to events, even if they aren't particularly liked, it's because they're part of the 'group' which has formed for a common interest. It's primate behaviour.

Sarah has decided to form a subgroup that excludes the Op and that does feel threatening and hurtful. It's totally understandable.

What to do about it? I don't think there is a solution other than to try to remain part of the original group, if it survives, find another group, or form a subgroup yourself. I do think a lot of people wouldn't be a Sarah and openly exclude other members of the group. It's quite dominant behaviour that is bound to lead to fractures.

My own experience with this was a school mums group that was joined by a very dominant person who took over and rearranged it to her liking. I tried to remain on side although the dislike was mutual but eventually felt compelled to leave when she announced the 'group' were on my exHs side when I decided to leave him. From what I hear, the group eventually imploded!

*The other people are…. Grown assed adults

If they genuinely like the op and her husband, they won’t allow another couple to cut out the op and her husband

True friends don’t cut a true friend out because someone someone else is choosing to*

Yea in an ideal world but in reality group mentality and politics will take precedence over individual friendships or lifelong loyalty too often.
As other posters said people are not willing to sacrifice their position with the in-crowd so will put their loyalty towards that and be glad they aren't the ones being left out.

It's often how bullying begins in that bystanders are too often just happy it isn't them or don't want to challenge the bully who may be popular. As the saying goes ''loyalty is rare''

No one else said a word, even when it got obvious, and I think that's what upset me the most

yep and again I am shocked so many posters here miss that. If one dominant person wants you gone or lessen your position in the group they can easily do it. If the group is going to events without you no matter what the ins and outs are then it's creating a divide whether you like it or not.
Eugh people can be so shit and the worst thing about these situations is the ''aftershock'' in that you effectively lose faith in friendships and people. You also lose confidence in yourself too and think you are unlikeable. It happened to me in 2008 in a group when I was left out of a trip ''my friends'' had planned. I assumed were lifelong friends and even nearly 15 years later I find myself unable to trust people or build attachments properly anymore and I still relive the hurt. I have a colleague who went through the same and once told me of the ''aftershock'' too so it's a real thing.
Worse is when you confront people,which I eventually did, you are told you are imagining it or are overthinking it which is exactly the type of unhelpful response you get on here.

Despite what people say on mn it is much harder in reality to just move on in these situations and the damage is all too often long term. OP YANBU and I wish I could say it's not a big deal but it is. You have my sympathy. xx

If one dominant person wants you gone or lessen your position in the group they can easily do it. If the group is going to events without you no matter what the ins and outs are then it's creating a divide whether you like it or not

Unless there's some major drip feed to come, there has been no suggestion that Sarah is dominant, or that she's trying to exclude op from other events. Op is invited to the wedding. So that doesn't appear to be the situation here.

The way op had presented it, it really is as simple as they don't like each other, and so op isn't invited to two events that are 100% for and about Sarah. And I have yet to see anything other than 'because everyone else is going' as a reason why op would want to share these moments in Sarah's life. In fact it seems like she doesn't even want to be part of the events anyway!

@Dacquoise
Sarah has decided to form a subgroup that excludes the Op and that does feel threatening and hurtful. It's totally understandable

No she hasn’t. Sarah has decided not to invite the OP to her Hen Night and 30th birthday party because the OP admits she doesn’t like Sarah, and Sarah has probably picked up on that. There are countless threads on here where people say “of course you shouldn’t have to invite anyone to your birthday/wedding/Hen Night that you don’t want to”. Don’t see why this is any different.

Unless there's some major drip feed to come, there has been no suggestion that Sarah is dominant, or that she's trying to exclude op from other events

The person doesn't actually have to be dominant though. But the bottom line is that if the group is going to a place regardless of the politics or situation and 1 is being left out it changes the dynamics of the group. It creates a divide and the op is the victim of it.

That's generally why social groups dissipate over time or people leave; generally, because divides are created, feelings are hurt, somebody is excluded, 1 friendship becomes stronger than another, etc and people inevitably leave or are forced out. So many similar threads have appeared like this on mn yet posters every time undermine it.
The dominant advice on this thread is that it's not an issue or that the op is overthinking it is somewhat deluded and detached from the reality of these situations.

Sarah has decided to form a subgroup that excludes the Op and that does feel threatening and hurtful. It's totally understandable.

I'd say this is probably the truth. The fact is both you and your DH have been excluded. I'd just sit back and see what happens. The group may implode and you'll be left with a core of your close friends. Most people don't see when someone is trying to undermine other people and they just go along with it.
Its happened in a few groups I've been in- usually one person does all the damage without anyone else really realising it.
I doubt they told anyone the pair of you weren't invited.
Best thing to do is to smile and wait it out. People want to hang out with the ones who don't make it awkward.

The dominant advice on this thread is that it's not an issue or that the op is overthinking it is somewhat deluded and detached from the reality of these situations

The reality of this situation is that op doesn't like Sarah. I'm not sure why she should then expect to be part of a group celebrating her important life events.

That's very different from being excluded from group events by the whole group.

If the overall general dynamic of a group is that the group share common events then excluding a member will create a subset. It's inevitable.

The Op invites Sarah to things because, although she dislikes her, she recognises she's part of the group. That's probably an empathetic response to not leaving her out and the subsequent feelings that may produce.

Sarah has decided to exclude the Op from a couple of events, which she is perfectly entitled to do, but that inevitably is going to lead to feelings of exclusion. It's the way groups generally work unless there is implicit agreement that this group is fluid and do some stuff on their own in smaller groups. Something has changed or the Op wouldn't be feeling this way.

Sounds a bit hard for you - but honestly, weddings and everything around them are such personal, special moments with limited spaces that I completely understand wanting only close friends who you really like and who really like you. If she was organising other general stuff and didnt invite you, that would be odd but not inviting you two to wedding stuff when there are always limited spaces is reasonable for the level of friendship you have clearly got with each other.