To wonder who will look after us in old age?

[malificent7]

I am curently a care assitant temp until my permanent job in healthcare is sorted. It is very rewarding but hard, dirty work for little money.
They are understaffed and many are leaving due to bad pay. As we are an aging population aibu to think this is going to get worse? How can we get carers to stay,?

Disclaimer...there is no way i want dd to look after me...not fair on her...i'd rather go to a home.

t’s easy to say ‘look at so and so and how distressed they are. It’s nit worth it’ but if the person isn’t fit enough to decide fir themselves, either he situation will still be the same or someone (family, doctor?) will have to take the decision for euthanasia. I personally wouldn’t want to take the decision to kill one of my parents tbh…..

Well then, don't.

and as @BiscuitLover09876 said actually few people are happy to take that decision either…. (There is always hope….)

Hope for what? That a vegan diet will cure the dementia or that a magic pill will sort to the Parkinson's and will magic the incontinence away away and will make you able to feed yourself?

Yours is a bleak but realistic post @ChardonnaysPetDragon. When we/anyone gets very elderly, there isn't an option to turn the clock back a few years. So somewhere in the painful middle of not dead and not going to get younger, we need another option. For me, personally, I'd like enough morphine to drift away.

and as @BiscuitLover09876 said actually few people are happy to take that decision either…. (There is always hope….)*

Well there wasn't any hope for my Dad and the assisted dying laws being proposed wouldn't have helped him as he couldn't feed himself. His mind was as sharp as anything so please explain to me why someone shouldn't be able to help him die if that's what he wanted? Why an ex lorry driver who was in constant pain an unable to do anything for himself was forced to live like that. I don't know whether he would have gone through with it but he should have had the choice.

Do you know what? I was glad when he died. Not because I didn't love him as I've missed him every bloody day for the last 22 years but when he died at least he was no longer suffering.

There is hope

How bloody dare you.

My Mum is dying every day. Every single fucking day she loses a bit more of herself, her memories, her personality, her likes and dislikes. She's lost so much language now that it's incredibly difficult to have a conversation with her. She can't remember what a chair is called, cannot ask for cutlery because she can't find the words to describe it, struggles to talk about being in pain because she has forgotten the words for the parts of her body that are hurting.

So please, do tell me exactly what "hope" I have?

I can hope that tomorrow is the day that she doesn't shit herself, and I can hope that she does not become distressed because she doesn't recognise that she's lost control of her bowels and only knows that "something's not right" and puts her hands down her pants and inadvertently smears faeces all over herself.

I can hope that tomorrow is the day she recognises who I am and remembers that she has a daughter.

I can hope that tomorrow is the day that she doesn't forget that her Mum died years ago, and become very upset when I have to explain that she cannot go and see her.

I can hope that tomorrow is the day that she eats and drinks normally, because she is now so frail that she cannot afford to lose any more weight, and her kidneys are failing so dehydration is a constant worry.

What else can I hope for? She isn't going to get better. No amount of care, compassion, wishing or pointless and quite frankly offensive platitudes from randoms on the internet is going to change that.

So please, if you can't logically think about the impact of what you are saying on those of us who have no choice but to ACTUALLY FUCKING LIVE THIS, then don't say anything at all.

I’ve never said that your dad shouldn’t be allowed to die if he wanted though.

I’m saying that I think few people would actually take on the offer if it was available. Very different. As you said yourself , he might ave taken the offer or he might not, despite the pain etc….

I’m also saying that for someone like your dad to be allowed to die when they can’t feed themselves (but still have capacity), then someone has to do it for them. Someone has to be happy to kill another human being. And yes, it is totally possible and ok for you to feel like you would have done it. I’m not disputing that. I’m disputing the fact it’s an easy decision to make.

Dignitas as it’s working atm is a system where the person is controlling it all. They are the ones to decide to push the button but very importantly they are the one to do it. It’s very different than someone who is so incapacitated that someone else has to make that step of pressing the button so they can die.

@BackBackBack No human should have to go through this, and nobody should ever have to watch their parent go through it.

@BackBackBack, Not many comments resonate with me as hard as yours. DMIL is not as far down the tube as your mum, but headed in the same direction. Just cut to the chase, and give a quick peaceful exit. DMIL would be grateful.

I lost my lovely grandmother to a long, hopeless and degrading condition. One of her children did look after her for years and it was so hard on the whole family because the other siblings had jobs and families on their own and it opened so many rifts in the family.

I wouldn't want this for myself or for my children. Take your hope and fuck off with it.

[quote XingMing]@BackBackBack, Not many comments resonate with me as hard as yours. DMIL is not as far down the tube as your mum, but headed in the same direction. Just cut to the chase, and give a quick peaceful exit. DMIL would be grateful.[/quote]

It's so hard. If I were able to wind the clock back and show my DM how she would suffer, I've no doubt she'd want to avoid what's she's going through now. But if you were to ask her now I'm sure she'd said (if she had the language) that she was quite happy. And in a funny way she is. It's just horrifying for those of us around her to have to watch her be robbed of every last scrap of agency, dignity and quality of life, with absolutely no end in sight.

@BackBackBack yup this is my mum too, it's bloody horrendous I just want her to be at peace, there's no way she would want to exist like this.

My mum has dementia. Every day she gets a little more forgetful, a little more distressed. Every time I have an early morning phone call I pray its to say she's died.

@freshcarnation

My mum has dementia. Every day she gets a little more forgetful, a little more distressed. Every time I have an early morning phone call I pray its to say she's died.

I'm so sorry.

I can see a lot of us planning advanced directives in the future - not dignitis, as such, but a cut-off on invasive treatment or even routine antibiotics if they are prolonging life without any quality of living it. My father fought so hard for his father's care (my grandad) who was paralyzed on his left side from a stroke, doubly incontinent and unable to eat or drink. DGF wanted to die, but DDad was not ready to let him go.

Sometimes it's not about the family pushing their loved ones into suicide. Sometimes it can be the other way around.

I also hope,with an aging population, that many and more care options open up, from communal living to full AI nursing. We all go straight to the worst case scenario, but there's a lot of steps in between that can be managed better.

Why are we so desperate to ignore the inevitability of death? It's a natural process that we will all experience and yet we seem to find it so hard to just let people fade away, instead we prop them.up endlessly with medications.

@freshcarnation

My mum has dementia. Every day she gets a little more forgetful, a little more distressed. Every time I have an early morning phone call I pray its to say she's died.

Huge hugs to you. I am so sorry that you are going through this.

@Joystir59 yes that is a good point although it is so tricky. If someone elderly with comorbidities ends up with pneumonia, and if when asked they want to be treated with antibiotics rather than receive palliative care which might result in death, then is it ethical or moral to ignore their request?

This is what I struggle with - what is the answer? Is it right that someone else should make the determination to withhold treatment that someone has specifically requested? But at the same time, I think there are times where it's obvious that just because we can treat something (e.g. pneumonia with antibiotics) it doesn't mean that we should if it is against the wishes of the patient. If a person has given clear advice that they do not want intervention at all costs, then they should be allowed to receive palliative care to make them comfortable without prolonging their life against their wishes.

But then what happens to the person - like my Mum - who is almost a medical student's textbook and has very low quality of life, but wants to be treated? I keep going round in circles with it and the only answer that I can land on is to hope that early detection improves of chronic conditions which severely impact quality of life, so that people have a choice whilst they still have capacity to end their lives if they wish to, before they deteriorate any further.

I almost wish I hadn't ventured onto this thread, because almost everyone here has someone much loved facing a certain descent, but I am simultaneously cheered by knowing that other people also want the best and kindest, and sometimes the briefest, outcomes possible. Once a poorly infirm person in their 90s has a bad virus or flu, what instruction should be given to the health care team? For me, it is "make them comfortable for what happens next". And call us, so we can be there.

That's based on everything DMIL has said to me personally, and she asked if I'd accompany her to Switzerland if necessary. She no longer has the agency to make the choice, so like @freshcarnation, I do hope we get an early morning call, saying she died peacefully in sleep. There really isn't a better result. It's fairly bleak.

I know a woman (80 yrs approx) who although quite well generally for her age, ie. No illness, no serious pain, able to walk, potter, go to hairdresser, etc. athough fed up & probably a bit depressed. She has rapidly declining H, (they should have divorced 30 years ago) They are wealthy, she has her first great granchild due soon,
She is determined to go to Switzerland & end her life, asap. & repeatedly asks her daughter, my good friend, to take her.
Which is upsetting & distressing, & she has naturally refused.
I respond that if her mother really wanted to go , she has the money to get a taxi to the airport, she can book a flight by phone. & take herself there, but imo its a guilt trip, & a "look at me" I need to be the centre of attention. (She has always been an extremely demanding woman)

I dont doubt that at some time in the future she will take that flight over the Alps unless her mental health declines & she is no longer able to make herself heard.
But noone can ever have any doubt that in her lucid old age she wanted to cut out the last miserable degrading years.
That aside, there are lots of hoops to jump through to end your life at dignitas, you dont just book an online slot,
You have to prove your medical history, see a psychiatrist, there are forms to fill. A cooling off period,
I believe It isn't that simple .

@freshcarnation

My mum has dementia. Every day she gets a little more forgetful, a little more distressed. Every time I have an early morning phone call I pray its to say she's died.

I'm so sorry. My work colleague is going through similar. Her wonderful kind and intelligent father has spent the past 10 years in a declining state of dementia. Visits to the home involve many miles of travel and result in aggression, physical violence and confusion. Memories marred. Grandchildren upset and scared. Years lost and not able to move on. He's clearly unhappy. Everyone's unhappy. They too long for the phone call. Awful way to live for everyone involved. There must be a better way.

Sorry too @freshcarnation I'm going through the same with my mum as I've mentioned a few times on this thread !!

That aside, there are lots of hoops to jump through to end your life at dignitas, you dont just book an online slot
You have to prove your medical history, see a psychiatrist, there are forms to fill. A cooling off period
I believe It isn't that simple

There was a caller on the Jeremy Vine show talking about how he, and their 3 daughters, took his wife to Dignitas and he explained the whole process. It was very moving listening to him, I had tears in my eyes a few times.
It does sound like there are lots of policies & procedures so it’s not like anyone could take great aunt Ethel over & bump her off for the inheritance. It’s also very expensive -£10,000! Out of the reaches of a lot of people sadly.

@BackBackBack what a heartbreaking post . Your despair and anger are only too familiar to me. I think there does come a time when hope is lost and death is the least worst outcome.

My DM's decline started two years before she died. She was in her late eighties in good health when she broke her leg in a car accident due to an idiot reversing into her in a car park. Her leg repaired well and I hoped she could get back to normal. But whilst in hospital recovering, she fell and broke her hip due to hospital negligence. She recovered again and came home and again I had hope. But she was also suffering from glaucoma and the combination of this and lack of movement compromised her mobility. She fell and broke the other hip.

Miraculously, she recovered but then went blind in one eye. The vision in the other eye wasn't great. She couldn't read or knit. Even watching TV wasn't good. She also had a few UTIs which made her confused for a time.
By now she had carers and I was living with her.

A few months before her 90th birthday she was diagnosed with vulvar cancer. Too frail for an operation, palliative radiotherapy was suggested. It is horrible hearing your mother screaming in pain when she tries to sit down. A few times she told me there was no point in living anymore as she had no quality of life. She was a tough woman of the Wartime generation. Never complained, always upbeat.

She went into a hospice for treatment and never came out. The syringe driver was her friend.
I was traumatised watching my mother's decline and she hated what she had become. I have no kids and hope that if I need it morphine will be my friend too.
Sorry for the long post.

Remember seeing a film once cant remember the name of it but it was something like Soylent X. Because of over population all the people over 50 were sent to be killed and turned into biscuits for the younger people to eat. Its coming to a city near you....................... Be careful what you wish for. If you think its OK to kill the elderly because they can no longer look after themselves then your turn will come around when you get old.