To wonder who will look after us in old age?

[malificent7]

I am curently a care assitant temp until my permanent job in healthcare is sorted. It is very rewarding but hard, dirty work for little money.
They are understaffed and many are leaving due to bad pay. As we are an aging population aibu to think this is going to get worse? How can we get carers to stay,?

Disclaimer...there is no way i want dd to look after me...not fair on her...i'd rather go to a home.

@DottyHarmer

I've realised it's pointless arguing with people who trumpet that they are going to be looking after their parents/in-laws who are currently in robust health . They sneer at the callous behaviour of those with some experience and talk about "my lovely mum".

What a rosy view of ageing and care. Sure, I have an aunt of a great age who is in fine fettle and an asset to have living with my cousin. Yes, there are care needs, but frankly as long as someone is compos mentis and can get to the loo it is doable.

But for every person like that there are many others who are definitely not. These people saying "I'd never put my parents in a home^ - just take a look at one, and say whether you would be able to look after, at home, some of the people the care home is dealing with. Men who are able-bodied yet have lost, with dementia, all sexual boundaries. So they are strong men and want to attack their female folk (sadly this happened to a friend's df). Try dealing with that at home when you have teenage dds. How about mil who started screaming 24/7. She lost the 24-hour clock so would be awake at any time. She attacked home carers.

Plus all those needing a hoist to move from bed to chair etc. Just leaving people in bed would result in horrible bedsores. I can imagine that a lot of people cared for at home are in a dreadful state due to lack of appropriate equipment or even physical strength of the carers.

One of my aunties was a lovely, gentle, kind lady (my dad's sister and very like him in temperament). She developed Alzheimer's and had a total personality change. She initially became very sweary but it progressed to anger and violence alongside mobility issues, incontinence etc, and as Dotty says above she lost all concept of time so would be up screaming half the night. Her three daughters did their very best to keep her at home with a certain amount of help but the house wasn't properly equipped and she was physically stronger than they were and it resulted in injuries more than once. She needed specialist Alzheimer's-specific residential care by people who were properly trained to deliver it, in a building with proper facilities. It broke her daughters' hearts but they couldn't keep going as they were.

Another uncle (married to my mum's sister) also had dementia which developed after my auntie died. His personality remained the same - he was as delightful as he had always been, a real gentleman - but his memory went and he constantly forgot that his wife had died, and started leaving his house in the evening "to meet her from bingo" and then getting confused, which was worrying. His house was perfectly set up with everything on one level, accessible shower etc. Their five children (including the one who lives a 90 minute drive away) started a rota system so someone stayed over with him every night, all the neighbours were put on lookout duty in case he went out on his own at night, and they had a pressure alarm system installed although he did manage to bypass it a few times and had to be found and brought home. But the five children all needed to work to pay their own bills and feed their families, so he was on his own for a while in the daytime with visits from private carers that the children paid for until whoever's turn it was that day could rush back from work. Grandchildren also helped with cooking meals, doing shopping and so on. His memory continued to deteriorate and his health declined badly and he had multiple hospital stays but the healthcare needs just became too much even for five willing people to cope with - even though they had all rallied together when their mum was terminally ill and managed to keep her at home with the help of Macmillan nurses - and he did eventually have to go into residential care for the last few months of his life. This was pre-Covid and he had visits from his children and grandchildren every day, often multiple times a day. He was a lovely man right up until his last day and the care home staff adored him.

In both of these situations, the children did their very very best to look after their parents but were unable to meet their medical needs. Many hearts were broken when residential care became the only option and I swear if anyone said in front of me that my lovely cousins didn't care about their parents and failed/neglected/didn't prioritise them I would be beyond furious.

Being willing is not the same as being able.

My DM - non smoker, slim, doesn’t drink, exercises regularly - diagnosed with Alzheimer’s at 63

I resent the implication that it is somehow your own fault for developing dementia due to lifestyle choices. In all the people I know who have it has made no difference at all, if anything it’s the healthiest who gets it.

My parents were very close. When she was 77 and he 79, it was clear she couldn't be cared for at home any longer. She spent the last sixteen months of her life in a good private care home, and even that was miserable for her, despite four hours of family visits every day. Brother and I are doing our best to support dad, now 89. He can still do a lot for himself and is only mildly forgetful. He says he will kill himself rather than go into a home.

@SinisterBumFacedCat I agree, my stepdad played tennis twice a week and bridge once a week, he ate well, didn't drink or smoke but still got dementia in his early 70's. It's insulting to suggest if you keep yourself well you won't get dementia !

@SinisterBumFacedCat

My DM - non smoker, slim, doesn’t drink, exercises regularly - diagnosed with Alzheimer’s at 63

I resent the implication that it is somehow your own fault for developing dementia due to lifestyle choices. In all the people I know who have it has made no difference at all, if anything it’s the healthiest who gets it.

The uncle I mentioned above was very active all his life, non smoker, occasional drinker, walked miles every day and played golf until his dementia got too advanced.

@SinisterBumFacedCat

My DM - non smoker, slim, doesn’t drink, exercises regularly - diagnosed with Alzheimer’s at 63

I resent the implication that it is somehow your own fault for developing dementia due to lifestyle choices. In all the people I know who have it has made no difference at all, if anything it’s the healthiest who gets it.

Yes, so sorry to hear this

I work in a hospital often with the elderly. People seem to presume that everybody old is dependent. In the last couple of weeks I've had a 100 Yr old and 96 Yr old both living full independent lives. The 100 Yr old proudly told me she still cleans her own toilet, the 96yr old still drove & picked up a friend to take to church and shopping (probably a younger friend😁).

@Mossstitch

I work in a hospital often with the elderly. People seem to presume that everybody old is dependent. In the last couple of weeks I've had a 100 Yr old and 96 Yr old both living full independent lives. The 100 Yr old proudly told me she still cleans her own toilet, the 96yr old still drove & picked up a friend to take to church and shopping (probably a younger friend😁).

This is very true. A female relative of mine lived at home alone until she was in her late 90s, and only went into a care home for the last month of her life.

A former neighbour of mine was still working as a volunteer aged 90. And she used to go out and do shopping for what she called "little old ladies" who were younger than she was!!

Old age does not automatically equate to infirmity. But it does make it more likely. Even simple things like not being able to drive anymore can have a big impact on someone's independence, especially if they live alone and in a location with poor public transport links

The average stay in a care home is 2 years. Most older people can manage with care (either paid for by themselves or the state) or provided by family.

Why is death more desirable to people than improving care?

Death is preferable to living with dementia in my book. I saw what it did to my mum and my granny. It’s not a place I want to go.

Why is death more desirable to people than improving care?

MIL was almost completely deaf and blind. She was also doubly incontinent and bed ridden. She still knew exactly what was going on though so I really don't see how improved care would have improved her life. As she said she was existing, not living.

@blossomtoes I agree. I have seen too much of it in my family, it's a cruel cruel illness.

There's also loss of dignity if you need intimate personal care or have continence issues. I don't want that. I do not want anyone having to wash me or wipe my bum.

And there's also having to live with pain. I'm in my early 40s and have a chronic back issue that I see an osteopath regularly to keep under control and the last flare up required a fairly heavy cocktail of painkillers, and it is likely to worsen as I get older. It's not nice living with it at this age but if I have to be dealing with long term pain alongside memory function problems and continence issues - no thanks. I don't want to live with that. Some people might and of course I might get to 60/70/whatever and change my viewpoint, but at the moment I'd say no thanks.

Death is preferable to living with dementia in my book. I saw what it did to my mum and my granny. It’s not a place I want to go.

Agree with this too. My lovely grandmother lived to 100. She received her letter from the Queen, and was well cared for by family and the fabulous staff in her care home.

But she spent the last five years of her life raving, hallucinating, often fearful, doubly incontinent, regularly suffering from scabies, shingles, UTIs and other unpleasant infections and frequently begging for death.

I wish those who harp on about the sanctity of life and insist that family should step up to care for older relatives at home could have witnessed my DGM’s final few months.

Yes. Death before dementia

Atm about 12% of deaths are from dementia in the U.K.
There is a lot of talk about getting old and dementia in this thread and how awful it.

Reality is that actually a leading cause of death is cancer. So whilst dementia is particularly hard to support, cancer treatment is something else Imo. The needs are different as well as the challenges. That’s where good l’allaita I’ve care can make a huge difference vs dementia I think (in part because we don’t really know what to do with that particular illness).

I also think this is where we should put all our efforts. Improving end of life care first and foremost.

Agree, @evilharpy . Just think, atm if I have a headache i trot off to the cupboard and get a couple of paracetamol or a nurofen. If I have indigestion, a gaviscon. Etc etc. Imagine not being able to communicate that you’ve got a crashing headache/backache/earache etc. Unspeakable!

Mil would scream in pain but couldn’t say what was wrong. As others have said, you wouldn’t let a dog suffer like that.

I don't know why you keep going on with your whataboutery, TravelLost.

There is palliative care for cancer and cancer generally does not involve years in a care home.

@DottyHarmer

Agree, *@evilharpy* . Just think, atm if I have a headache i trot off to the cupboard and get a couple of paracetamol or a nurofen. If I have indigestion, a gaviscon. Etc etc. Imagine not being able to communicate that you’ve got a crashing headache/backache/earache etc. Unspeakable!

Mil would scream in pain but couldn’t say what was wrong. As others have said, you wouldn’t let a dog suffer like that.

I'm so sorry your mil lived through that, doing the job I do it's my biggest fear to be like that. I do try and advocate for those in my care to have as much pain relief or sedation as they need to be comfortable and as relaxed as possible, but even my feeling that way raises questions with the HCPs I ask to intervene or senior colleagues because there's this thing about challenging behaviour and managing it, the flip side of which means people suffer. Dementia produces challenging behaviour itself, but we're actually trained to recognise signs of physical or mental distress like needing the toilet but not having the cognitive function to be able to understand the feeling and what to do, and offering solutions to the apparent discomfort, because discomfort leads to frustration and challenging behaviour. But when it comes to pain or treating a condition........ It all changes. I honestly don't understand why it's acceptable really, and I don't think assisted dying is the answer to that, it'll mean less people will suffer right to the end (which I agree with) but we really should be better at this, people shouldn't be left in pain and distress, and assisted dying won't address that, I think it's a linked but separate issue, because if someone doesn't choose assisted dying then they're still going to face this unless it's addressed.

For all those who said assisted dying.. perhaps for some, but you do realise a lot of people don't suddenly want to die when they need some extra help? I work with a lot of older people and they don't suddenly want to keel over. Sometimes they go on about it, but then they admit not really. They are still people you know.

The fear is being a burden and a horrendous overstretched care system. Care homes in the UK are not good by international standards. If that was improved, things would be different.

For all those who said assisted dying.. perhaps for some, but you do realise a lot of people don't suddenly want to die when they need some extra help? I work with a lot of older people and they don't suddenly want to keel over. Sometimes they go on about it, but then they admit not really. They are still people you know. confused

Of course they are still people, why wouldn't they be? Why are you saying that?

Also, who is preventing them from living their life the way they want? No one has said assisted dying ought to be mandatory.

@Blossomtoes

Why is death more desirable to people than improving care?

Death is preferable to living with dementia in my book. I saw what it did to my mum and my granny. It’s not a place I want to go.

The best, kindest care at my mother’s care home did not prevent another poor lady in her 80s from being so often terribly distressed - as I witnessed several times - because either her mother wouldn’t know where she was and would be so worried, or she had to get home to ‘the children’.

The staff always did their best to reassure and comfort her, but it helped very little - she’d still be crying and so upset.
And of course, as anyone familiar with dementia will know, telling the person that whoever it is, died long ago, is no help at all, because they will forget in minutes, if not seconds - and be terribly upset to be told anyway.

Who the hell wants a life like that prolonged, when nature might well otherwise take its course?

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

For all those who said assisted dying.. perhaps for some, but you do realise a lot of people don't suddenly want to die when they need some extra help? I work with a lot of older people and they don't suddenly want to keel over. Sometimes they go on about it, but then they admit not really. They are still people you know. confused

Of course they are still people, why wouldn't they be? Why are you saying that?

Also, who is preventing them from living their life the way they want? No one has said assisted dying ought to be mandatory.

No but there are enough people on this thread saying that it would be better fir the person to make some people uncomfortable.

It’s easy to say ‘look at so and so and how distressed they are. It’s nit worth it’ but if the person isn’t fit enough to decide fir themselves, either he situation will still be the same or someone (family, doctor?) will have to take the decision for euthanasia. I personally wouldn’t want to take the decision to kill one of my parents tbh…..
and as @BiscuitLover09876 said actually few people are happy to take that decision either…. (There is always hope….)

@DottyHarmer

Agree, *@evilharpy* . Just think, atm if I have a headache i trot off to the cupboard and get a couple of paracetamol or a nurofen. If I have indigestion, a gaviscon. Etc etc. Imagine not being able to communicate that you’ve got a crashing headache/backache/earache etc. Unspeakable!

Mil would scream in pain but couldn’t say what was wrong. As others have said, you wouldn’t let a dog suffer like that.

The thing is you dint need to know exactly where the pain to give some painkillers. That could have been done even wo your MIL been able to explain where the pain is.

That’s what good palliative care is too.