To wonder who will look after us in old age?

[malificent7]

I am curently a care assitant temp until my permanent job in healthcare is sorted. It is very rewarding but hard, dirty work for little money.
They are understaffed and many are leaving due to bad pay. As we are an aging population aibu to think this is going to get worse? How can we get carers to stay,?

Disclaimer...there is no way i want dd to look after me...not fair on her...i'd rather go to a home.

I’ll be going to Switzerland too. I’ve spent 6 years looking after my dad with Alzheimer’s and before that my mum too. It’s soul destroying and I don’t want my DDs doing this

She made me feel awful but I knew I was doing the right thing for Mum.

That must have been very hard. It's horrible to be put in that situation but sadly you are not the only person I've encountered that's had to do this.

There's no short term answer though, as social care is at breaking point and the staff, resources, infrastructure etc aren't there to cope. The sad thing is that the only people "winning" out of this are private firms who are turning a profit out of providing care. The agency that services my DM charges out at £25 p/h but I know from talking to the carers that they are only getting NMW and having to use their own transport to get to calls. I know there will be overhead - insurance and so on - but a £15 p/h margin does seem quite high. Especially as they are squeezing the existing staff - the carer I spoke with yesterday was working her 10th day on the trot as they were so short staffed.

I worry about this a lot too. Maybe instead of assisting dying we could
Have a “ceiling of care” established in our will: for example, if I am bed ridden & no capacity I don’t want to have any surgery, artificial feeding, or IV antibiotics. Just confort care.
In this way we are living our lives the way god intended them and not lengthening them artificially. I worked in Nursing homes a lot of patients had advanced dementia, bed ridden, shouting, crying and in pain or trapped in a horrible place mentally. Then they go to hospital and their families get offended if doctors suggest dnacpr and no icu. COVID has improved a lot ceiling of care conversations and now that doctors take their time to explain the reasons and why icu is not on a frail body, patients and relatives end up agreeing that that is not what they would like. I still see a lot of IVs and artificial feeding which are just prolonging the life of people that have been mentally and physically gone for years but with time we will get there. That we can do it (prolonged life thanks to medicine), doesn’t mean we should!

@BackBackBack

I would not under any circumstances: dementia, incontinence, anything let someone else care for my mother.

Bur for people - like me - who live hundreds of miles from their parents, what would you have me do? I cannot be there every day - it's just not possible, as I have to earn a living! They were the ones that moved away BTW.

I wouldn’t have you do anything. I wouldn’t judge anyone for assisted suicide or choosing a care home for themselves or anyone else. Personally I know I would care for my Mum. We are lucky because we decided early to have a bungalow built next to our house and my sister has a suite of rooms that are designated for my mum in her home. We would share the care and buy in any equipment for lifting etc. We don’t work and would probably as a joint effort from her three Children be able to just about afford some extra live in over night care. However, that would eat into money we would otherwise inherit. We all say it’s her money until she dies for her comfort etc., So yes I am very very lucky with my Mum. Myself maybe I would choose digital over the depression I experienced when in Hospital. I would like to see the multimillionaire care home owners be made to spend more on provision of care so it was a less frightening option.

Also, I was listening in the radio how cafes and restaurants are increasing their wages to recruit more staff. Who in their right mind would work as a carer (with all the legal responsibilities, exposure to bodily fluids, risk of aggression, risk of injuries due to lifting patients, etc) if you can get more salary plus tips being a waiter (you might get the odd bullying from a client, but nothing compared to what we get from relatives and some clients with dementia, psychiatric issues or learning disabilities

Personally I know I would care for my Mum. We are lucky because we decided early to have a bungalow built next to our house and my sister has a suite of rooms that are designated for my mum in her home. We would share the care and buy in any equipment for lifting etc

But - and I mean this nicely - you don't know that you will be able to do this. You are assuming your mum will have needs that you can accommodate. If you can and you want to care for her, then wonderful.

But she could have needs that you can't care for. She could end up with dementia that makes her violent. A carer in my support group had to put her mum into a home because she would scream all day and throw things. She had to be sedated and kept under constant supervision and after 3 or so years of caring for her it wasn't possible for her to go on.

I hope you can care for your mum. But you cannot say for certain that you will until the time comes, because it will be completely dependent on her needs and whether you can safely meet them or not.

@Carm10

Also, I was listening in the radio how cafes and restaurants are increasing their wages to recruit more staff. Who in their right mind would work as a carer (with all the legal responsibilities, exposure to bodily fluids, risk of aggression, risk of injuries due to lifting patients, etc) if you can get more salary plus tips being a waiter (you might get the odd bullying from a client, but nothing compared to what we get from relatives and some clients with dementia, psychiatric issues or learning disabilities

There is a large Amazon distribution centre near my parents. The care agency has lost more than one member of staff to Amazon because the wages are better and unlike doing care work, Amazon aren't on the phone every day pestering them to work overtime, on their days off, cancel holidays and so on.

@BackBackBack

Personally I know I would care for my Mum. We are lucky because we decided early to have a bungalow built next to our house and my sister has a suite of rooms that are designated for my mum in her home. We would share the care and buy in any equipment for lifting etc

But - and I mean this nicely - you don't know that you will be able to do this. You are assuming your mum will have needs that you can accommodate. If you can and you want to care for her, then wonderful.

But she could have needs that you can't care for. She could end up with dementia that makes her violent. A carer in my support group had to put her mum into a home because she would scream all day and throw things. She had to be sedated and kept under constant supervision and after 3 or so years of caring for her it wasn't possible for her to go on.

I hope you can care for your mum. But you cannot say for certain that you will until the time comes, because it will be completely dependent on her needs and whether you can safely meet them or not.

I agree, we would do all we could to accommodate her. I should mention my sister was a qualified nurse, but no longer works. I have one daughter however and will be in a much less favourable position.

@Plipityplopity hopefully you and your sister will be able to care for her when the time comes.
Many people do prefer to be cared for by family and I know my own mum prefers it when I'm doing her care. The best advice I can give you is to get help and support - whether that's capacity assessments or equipment - in place asap. There's often a wait even if you are paying privately. And if your mum hasn't signed a POA yet then get one in place that covers financial as well as health. Having my mum's POA made it much easier to sort out her various financial issues when the time came. Particularly useful when I was finally able to tell a mobile phone provider to fuck off and stop charging her through the nose for a rolling contract she wasn't even touching the sides of.

Assisted dying is like termination of pregnancy. If you don't approve of it, don't have one, but don't deny those of us who do. No one is forced to have a TOP and no one would be forced to have an assisted death. It's something you would opt in to. Disabled children and the elderly wouldn't be euthanised. People need to stop with the hyperbole and over reaction.

I have an Advance Directive and will refuse certain treatments and pneumonia vaccination, but that's no guarantee of hastening death and avoiding the need for 'care'.

[quote BackBackBack]@Plipityplopity hopefully you and your sister will be able to care for her when the time comes.
Many people do prefer to be cared for by family and I know my own mum prefers it when I'm doing her care. The best advice I can give you is to get help and support - whether that's capacity assessments or equipment - in place asap. There's often a wait even if you are paying privately. And if your mum hasn't signed a POA yet then get one in place that covers financial as well as health. Having my mum's POA made it much easier to sort out her various financial issues when the time came. Particularly useful when I was finally able to tell a mobile phone provider to fuck off and stop charging her through the nose for a rolling contract she wasn't even touching the sides of.[/quote]
Thank you I really appreciate that advice.
We had her move her when she was saying “I don’t need to be this close”! During lockdown it was an absolute godsend. She got really anxious and depressed and having us in the garden with her and sorting the shopping and just being there to watch a movie together and share a cup of Tea was essential. It would have been awful for
her to be miles away on her own and very lonely x

Assisted dying is like termination of pregnancy. If you don't approve of it, don't have one, but don't deny those of us who do. No one is forced to have a TOP and no one would be forced to have an assisted death. It's something you would opt in to. Disabled children and the elderly wouldn't be euthanised.

I agree with assisted dying but I have concerns about the implications for people who may have opted in when compos mentis, and then years later when they don't have capacity, changing their minds and saying that they don't want to go ahead. What happens in those circumstances given that they no longer have capacity? Do you observe their original wishes, especially if they'd written in specifics for dementia etc? It would be a difficult route, to hold someone who has changed their mind to a prior wish. It's those circumstances which concern me.

@Plipityplopity no worries. The POA is essential - as she has to enter into it whilst she has the capacity to do so. If she loses capacity and doesn't have one, then you have to go to the Court of Protection which is not an insurmountable problem, but also isn't quick.

@malificent7

I am curently a care assitant temp until my permanent job in healthcare is sorted. It is very rewarding but hard, dirty work for little money. They are understaffed and many are leaving due to bad pay. As we are an aging population aibu to think this is going to get worse? How can we get carers to stay,?

Disclaimer...there is no way i want dd to look after me...not fair on her...i'd rather go to a home.

I'm with you...I'd rather go into a home than saddle my sons with my care. I've also told them that if neither of them claims my body and I'm given a pauper's funeral, I'm fine with that. After all, I'm entirely done with that body! Who cares?

@CuriousBogInTheNight

Once you remove age from it you see why assisted dying is so terrible. All these people on this thread asking for assisted dying if they got dementia and couldn't care for themselves - would you argue that a child with severe learning disabilities should have assisted dying?

Absolutely categorically a different things and in no way is it comparable.

1 - There couldn’t be a greater loss than losing a child imo and I suspect the vast majority would agree. A child dying is not the natural order so parents would do everything they could to preserve their child’s life.

2 - Our bodies can’t go on forever, they give up eventually, some sooner than others. A child’s body is young and would have many many many more years left without medical intervention, even if they do have learning disabilities.

3 - Assisted dying is about the person choosing whether they’d like to continue living or not. The whole argument is about their choice, so it’s completely irrelevant to mention learning disabilities or Alzheimer’s, because obviously those people won’t be able to make the decision so it’s a moot point.

If that argument is going to be used ie quality of life, which is what I assume when you use children with learning disabilities as an example, then you could go on to compare it with drug addicts, alcoholics, and so on.

It shouldn’t be up to anyone else but the individual to decide whether their quality of life is worth fighting for. It should be their choice

I've watched a family friend sacrifice nearly 20 years of her post retirement life where she should/could have been travelling and making the most, that's what she wound have wanted, looking after her mum who refused to go to a care home or even have a carer in the door. She died age 101. I'd absolutely hate for my dc to be in that position at the time of their life they have that opportunity. I don't actually care who looks after me. Assume there will be some basic provision but I'll always push them not to be the ones providing it.

People are getting on the housing ladder later because of affordability issues

many aren't or never will get on at all.

@liveforsummer

I've watched a family friend sacrifice nearly 20 years of her post retirement life where she should/could have been travelling and making the most, that's what she wound have wanted, looking after her mum who refused to go to a care home or even have a carer in the door. She died age 101. I'd absolutely hate for my dc to be in that position at the time of their life they have that opportunity. I don't actually care who looks after me. Assume there will be some basic provision but I'll always push them not to be the ones providing it.

I ink the mother sounds absolutely selfish.

@Ledition

Depends how "bad" I am but I would want my DDs to look after me! I will look after my own mum if she requires it in the future. It's not selfish IMO it's what good families are supposed to do. However, full-time around the clock care with zero respite is different but if I just need a bit of help with showering/cooking well they can bloody well step up

If only care was as simple as a bit "of showering and cooking" the breakdown of normal life routines often is an indicator of deterioration of other mental and physical failures. I've been there, we hung on with carers and family support until Covid struck. It is dismal and sad for everyone and there are no good choices.

plus most people can't afford to live where they grew up/near their parents so how does that work re caring

that would be true around London and generally in the south east but I don't know if that's ''most people''.

@TableFlowerss I think so too. By the time the parent died the daughter looking after her had a great grandchild who she was also active in his life. She lived 50 miles away from her mum and the Ggrandson was 10 miles in the opposite direction. Was splitting herself in two at a time she herself should have been winding down but also enjoying the benefits of her hard work over many years. Now she's significantly older there is less opportunities. Its really made me realise I don't want my dc bound to this in any way.

[quote liveforsummer]@TableFlowerss I think so too. By the time the parent died the daughter looking after her had a great grandchild who she was also active in his life. She lived 50 miles away from her mum and the Ggrandson was 10 miles in the opposite direction. Was splitting herself in two at a time she herself should have been winding down but also enjoying the benefits of her hard work over many years. Now she's significantly older there is less opportunities. Its really made me realise I don't want my dc bound to this in any way. [/quote]
Same here. It’s such a shame for your friend and a very selfish attitude of her mother. I’m sure most people wouldn’t love to go in to a care home, but the burden of responsibility on her daughter, was just so much, especially as she lived 20 years beyond the average life expectancy. Utterly selfish imo

I believe very strongly in assisted death but we're planning to move back to NI soon and I just can't see it happening there any time soon - look at the whole abortion shitshow over there.

I very very much don't want my daughter having to care for me, but I think as we get older our perceptions of things can change. My dad was a lovely, unselfish man but when he got old and sick he desperately didn't want to go into a home despite being totally dependent on a carer and having serious mobility issues. I lived in a different country and had no siblings, so my mum ended up doing all the caring and as much as I hate to say it, he did become a burden. She was barely able to leave the house for several years despite being in her late 70s herself. He did eventually agree to a very small amount of care at home and a sitter for a few hours once a week to give my mum a chance to get out to the hairdresser and for a coffee with her friends but it was very hard on her.

He was the last person you'd ever think of that would have wanted their family to have to bear the brunt of their health needs and my mum never begrudged it and would never have wanted him in a home, but it wore her out and she used to cry every time I spoke to her on the phone. It was horrible being so far away and unable to help on a day to day basis. If I'd been nearby I'd have done it without question but ten years ago he'd have been horrified at the very thought of me (or my mum) having to wash him and help him to the toilet.

So it's all well and good saying now that I don't want my daughter doing this, but what if my perceptions shift when I get old and sick and I don't realise I'm being a burden?

I know it's easy to say now but I really truly don't want to live unless I can be fully independent. I don't want to have to depend on someone to help me shop or cook or shower. It scares the shit out of me, and so does the fact that my daughter might end up being the one who has to help. I don't want this for her.

I think a lot of people don’t realise how hard it is to look after someone needing care. I helped provide unofficial respite care for relatives who were caring for their mother, back when I was a child-free 20something with no mortgage, and the kind of job where I could take a regular unpaid week off. It was incredibly hard. Feeding her, using the hoist (meant to be used by two people but we were each on our own doing it) - which destroyed my back and left me with long term health issues, cleaning her after she’d soiled herself, dealing with being screamed at and hit many times a day because her dementia meant she was convinced I was an intruder there to attack her. It destroyed her children’s finances as they were working part time to look after her. It was heartbreaking seeing her in the state she was in for several years before she died. I love my family very much but I wouldn’t do it again. It was awful, and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. I actually think it was worse being a relative, because of knowing what she’d been like before, it made it incredibly painful.

Plus from a practical perspective, I live in a small flat - which being in London cost a fortune and means I’m not set to pay off my mortgage till I’m 70. Even once the offspring leave home (if they can ever afford to) I will need to work. I couldn’t afford to give up work to care for an aged parent, and have no room for them to move in. Plus my health issues mean I couldn’t manage if personal care was needed, using a hoist etc. I know people talk about cleaners etc., but if someone has dementia they often won’t allow strangers in, and then what? Proper, professional help is needed then.