To wonder who will look after us in old age?

[malificent7]

I am curently a care assitant temp until my permanent job in healthcare is sorted. It is very rewarding but hard, dirty work for little money.
They are understaffed and many are leaving due to bad pay. As we are an aging population aibu to think this is going to get worse? How can we get carers to stay,?

Disclaimer...there is no way i want dd to look after me...not fair on her...i'd rather go to a home.

I do not expect my kids to look after me, i don't want them to have that burden and I can't believe anyone assumes that their kids will take them in to look after them.

Wow@Comedycook

I think there needs to be multiple approaches

• ongoing research into treatments fo dementia
• higher acceptance of moving into dedicated accommodation in healthy old age to reduce distance that carers are travelling and using inadequate facilities (commodes, stairs, bathtubs etc).
• increasing technology to do the heavy lifting of care work so carers have more time to spend with the person rather than just bodily functions (taking robotic milkers in farming as an example).
• better pay and training for carers.

Not sure who pays for it all though.

A lot of adult children start off looking after their parents and/or arranging help.

It's fine when Mum just needs someone to get the shopping or prepare a meal, but for many elderly people their health is not static. It's much harder when Dad becomes disorientated, can't be left at all as he puts the electric kettle on the hob, refuses to let the carers in, or needs turning regularly throughout the day and night to prevent bedsores.

DH and I both have separated parents who remarried. We have 8 parents between us, in 4 different locations. We are both the eldest children. How do we decide who we help?

Additionally, if we stay near them on the outskirts of London, we'll definitely need both our incomes to pay the mortgage. How do we do that and provide care? The standard response to high house prices is "move somewhere cheaper". How does that align with supporting ageing parents?

We have been very clear with our parents that we don't care about an inheritance. If it is needed, we'd rather every penny of their savings & home equity went on providing them with high quality care & support to be as comfortable as possible in retirement.

This is another reason why pensions are so important. If DH or I need a care home, a good one is likely to be £1000+ pw. That's what my friend pays for her mother. Fortunately it's covered from her mother's occupational, state and widow's pension and the rent from her flat in London.

[quote Hopeisallineed]Wow@Comedycook[/quote]
?

I've worked in a care facility and it is back breaking work for long hours, minimum pay and no respect from a few of the residents/ their families and management.( most residents/ family were lovely)
For me a typical day was 8am- 8pm with one small break of 30 mins plus a large break of 1 hr. but due to staff shortages you were always on call even on breaks.
Minimal training , it was simply a day in the managers office talking about legislation and then shadowing another staff member for a week or two.
The manager did not help at all ( even though she made a point of saying she helps during staff shortages at the interview)
They also had to recruit nurses from Ukraine /Russia be carers as nobody with the right to work in the UK were interested. Some of these ladies were planning to leave as soon as visa conditions allowed.
I think I lasted about 6 weeks. The final straw was when I was told off for incorrect buttering a residents toast and then my pay was screwed up. Thankfully it was only a weeks notice.

The point is correct ongoing training , decent pay and better hours would go along way in recruitment of carers. Respect too.

At the end of the day, if you get dementia you have no say in what happens to you or who looks after you. There’s a long tradition of caring for elderly parents in my family. Having seen my mum and then me do it, I have no doubt that my son would, regardless of what I said.

It’s pretty much certain I’ll get dementia. I’ve already refused the pneumonia vaccination which confers lifelong immunity because it will probably be my friend at some point. I have a living will which states that no other condition is to be treated following a diagnosis of dementia. There’s no prospect of going to Dignitas if dementia is diagnosed because there’s no capacity to make the decision.

I think a lot of the time with residents and homes you are trying to put a square peg in a round hole. It certainly felt that way with my father. Care homes seem set up for how people aged 30+ years ago when physical degeneration was the reason residents were there rather than dementia which is the reason the vast majority of residents are in care homes now, for the most part I believe people with physical disabilities are more likely to have visiting carers in their own. Yet none of this is acknowledged and assessments require that they score highly on all aspects of need before continuing health care is considered. Mental health wards aren’t really set up for the elderly either. Autonomy is becoming highly regarded as important and rightly so, accept for dementia sufferers. Ways that could make living better more comfortable lives are not available for dementia sufferers, like retirement villages and sheltered accommodation, the right to end your life before it becomes unbearable and degrading is unavailable, even the right to refuse food and water when the body has decided not to carry on is largely ignored depending on the personal views of the carer. I think if we can’t find a cure or effective treatment we need to start changing how care is assessed and managed for those who loose the life lottery of ending up like this. Right now it just seems like the pattern is, work the families until they drop, let them pay until the cash runs out and then move them to a cheaper home the stress of which will ultimately cause huge deterioration and ultimately death. It’s piling cruelly upon cruelty and feels entirely wrong.

@Youcancallmeval

If I get to a point I need care, I will be booking a one way ticket to Switzerland.

I agree, thnigs do not look good for the future of care.

@MamsellMarie

There should be research by then indicating the best way to age - eg the degree of exercise you need to stay mobile and steady on your feet (thought it won't go on indefinitely obviously). Once my DM moved to an old person's house from her house with the steep staircase it mean within a few weeks she was no longer any good at going up steps. When you're elderly if you don't use it you very quickly lose it. Once you sit about all day (because you are old and tired rather than lazy) you very soon loose mobility. Then you can't get to the loo, stand in the kitchen to make a cup of tea. There should be plans for individuals by OT on what exercise they must do each day to keep fit. And it should be provided for everyone. Research is also adviising on changes to diet eg to maintain a healthy microbiome. This needs to be given to anyone over 75.

So interesting, the point you make about “use it or lose it”. There’s a term, “bungalow legs” which is where older people who move into bungalows from a house with a staircase they’d been able to climb, albeit with a small difficulty, quickly lose the ability to do so.

@Namechangedforthethousandthtim

Assisted dying is not an option to many people for religious and moral reasons. I certainly wouldn't do it for religious reasons. That CAN'T be the fall back plan, surely 😳 Making assisted dying the norm is, in my opinion, one step away from mass involuntary extermination - if it becomes the norm, people will feel forced or morally obliged to do it. The young and healthy who, in previous generations would have cared for the elderly and infirm, will over time begin to think "Why should we care for X? Everyone else is euthanising themselves - if X won't do it too, it's reallg not my problem." To me, assisted dying becoming the norm is really, really dark.

Well said

I'm halfway house on this and my dps are getting to that point. I will try my best if I can.

@Ledition

Depends how "bad" I am but I would want my DDs to look after me! I will look after my own mum if she requires it in the future. It's not selfish IMO it's what good families are supposed to do. However, full-time around the clock care with zero respite is different but if I just need a bit of help with showering/cooking well they can bloody well step up

I hate this attitude of 'good families care for their elderly' as if those of who don't are somehow lesser beings. My Mum never came out of hospital but, if she had, she would have needed 24 hour care. How was I supposed to provide that and work full time?

MIL went straight into a home when she came out of hospital as again she needed 24 hour care and the best place for that was a nursing home.

Some people need to step back and realise that sometimes caring for someone means making the hard decision to put them in a home.

I couldn't care for my dad , no room in my house and it wasn't practical at all
I guess it's the same for many others too
If you have a huge place with lots of space that's good , not many people have any of this!

Would massively prefer assisted dying if my quality of life was likely to be very low

@missfliss

Would massively prefer assisted dying if my quality of life was likely to be very low

Me too! I think that clinics like the ones they have in Switzerland would be extremely popular , but our government is anti euthanasia and votes it all down as too much money to take from people in care homes .. the politicians have shares in care homes ..

I think we are missing the point that decent care should be an option for anyone who wishes it, especially in nursing homes. The majority of nursing home in UK are private business, albeit almost entirely funded by the Government on a per person funding. The nursing home that killed my MIL was being paid £1000 a week for the care of at least 100 people. It was a massive home with a care section and a nursing section. They had a turnover of £7million a year. I had volunteered there as a teenager and saw how badly the staff were overworked and underpaid. The business that own these homes should be accountable. Not just the QCC (quality care commission) who make judgements of “failing”
Yet the homes are still able to continue to operate. The owners should have enforcement of decent wages, hours, etc., for staff and decent living conditions, food, social time, physiotherapists, etc., it amazes me how dreadfully our elderly are allowed to be treated - worse than prisons - yet the Government allows private businesses to make millions off the government funding.

I work in education and our elderly should be afforded at least the same level of protection and care that is afforded to children.

I work in a care home, but not as a carer.
They are not living, just existing, whether they are bedbound, immobile or not. The majority get little or no family visits, it seems as if most families have just offloaded them.
Working in these services means you do tend to wonder if this is what I have got to look forward to as I hurtle in to old age.
I do not expect my children to look after me, even if they lived on my doorstep.
They say getting older is a privilege, it doesn't seem much of a privilege to me waiting forever to get your pad changed or to be taken to the toilet only to have wet yourself before someone comes.

I just finished reading a dystopian novel dealing with this very topic. Let's just say it wasn't an uplifting read.

amazon.co.uk/Rockstar-Ending-N-Rossi-ebook/dp/B083CN3D3N]]

I reckon people's opinion on this is drastically shaped by their families and what they've witnessed from their elderly relatives.

We all pitch in for the care of various elderly relatives aged in their late 90s. In the case of one my 98 year old aunty, my grandparents aged 90 and 91 do the majority of the care!

My grandparents are still very socially and physically active, and they're very happy. Neither have run into any major illnesses yet (though my nan did have a heart attack in her 50s, but everything has been ticking along fine since). When I see people saying they wouldn't want to get to that age, I find it so strange as I know how happy my nan and grandad are. I also know that all the care my family gives to our elderly relatives is no great hardship on any of us, and we wouldn't have it any other way.

But I have to remind myself that my family have been incredibly lucky, as really even my eldest relative that has the most "care"/help from us all is actually doing pretty well, all told. He's still mostly "with-it" 99% of the time, and when he does have his confused-spells, he's not usually distressed at all and he remembers everything again fairly quickly.

I can imagine why those who've had to work so hard to care for relatives that are more unwell would find it difficult. And I can imagine why those who work in the care sector and every day see those in most need of help have a different view of old-age than I do.

@Blossomtoes That's honestly the thing that keeps me up at night. I already have advanced directives and re: lack of treatment after a certain point, but the women in my family (that I know of) tend to live into their nineties...with dementia. Very little in the way of heart disease, cancer, or other physical ailments that could bring about a natural end sooner. My grandmother went on...and on...it was not a good life, and in more coherent moments she frequently expressed a wish (demand) to die but even if we did have assisted death laws she would not have had capacity to request it. I truly don't know how to plan for this if it happens to me.

@crimsonlake

I work in a care home, but not as a carer. They are not living, just existing, whether they are bedbound, immobile or not. The majority get little or no family visits, it seems as if most families have just offloaded them. Working in these services means you do tend to wonder if this is what I have got to look forward to as I hurtle in to old age. I do not expect my children to look after me, even if they lived on my doorstep. They say getting older is a privilege, it doesn't seem much of a privilege to me waiting forever to get your pad changed or to be taken to the toilet only to have wet yourself before someone comes.

Grim. I'd want to be long gone before that point.

@MadeItOut21

As someone who saw a very frail and ill family member struggle and need full time care for over 10 years....I am VERY MUCH AGAINST assisted dieing. She only wanted to die when she was at her lowest and other times she would be happy to see her grandchildren, express how much she wanted to see them marry etc. There were definitely family members who saw her as a huge burden and made that clear. The pressure to kill herself would have been huge if assisted dieing was available (there was an inheritance at stake as well which was obviously getting smaller as more money was spent on care - not huge by any means but we were a poor family so it was a lot to us).

While I really feel for the minority of people who have full mental capacity while having severe physical illnesses that cause them pain and misery, I think that on the whole the system would be hugely open to abuse. I feel very strongly that this should not be made legal.

@MadeItOut21 completely agree

I think families will be expected to step up more or you pay for care.
The government can’t afford to fund good care for a growing older generation.