To think it Is it a feasible proposal that a school might consider allowing a currently pregnant Year 12 the opportunity to repeat year 12 next yeara currently pregnant currently pregnant year 12

[redhilary]

I have reposted this thread from chat due to limited traffic.

Is it a feasible proposal that a school might consider allowing a currently pregnant year 12 girl the opportunity to repeat Year 12 next year.

@TractorAndHeadphones

PP have almost unanimously suggested that grammar school isn't the option. But the bigger issue is why is your friends so set on her daughter retaining her place - does she think that FE college is inferior?

Grammar schools are not designed for students who need extra support - quite the opposite. While FE colleges are designed for people who do. Besides the former won't help with contextual evidence. And her friends will have left, so won't be in the same year.

There's everything to be gained from going to the FE. The school isn't being U at all.

This

This is terrible advice. Teens who get pregnant are better off if they stay in school and maintain friendships.

But rhay isn’t the plan anyway. The plan is still for her to be out of education for 9 months and then re enter with a different cohort of students so really very little will be the same as she knows school to be now.

It would be the same building but everything else would be very different. From what the OP has said I could see how this could actually make things even tougher and more confusing.

Happened in my sixth form and I’m 43 now!

I agree with pp, wait a year and go to college.

If she wants to go back to school then let her go. If it doesn’t work out, she can resit at college later.

"This is terrible advice. Teens who get pregnant are better off if they stay in school and maintain friendships."

IME friendships are unlikely to endure. The rest of her group will be in Year 13 and focused on university applications.

I feel that the school has probably seen this situation before and knows the % likelihood of success/failure. They are trying to give good advice - grammar school, with everyone knowing why you've repeated a year, watching your friends move on, for a child who was already struggling and is now also a mother, is not going to be the best environment.

She wants to stay in school because she doesn't like change. Take her to see the other options, with all of the support they offer, and help her to make an informed decision.

Otherwise you'll be on here in a year saying that she's missing deadlines and they're being unsupportive so she's failing, stressed and struggling. Encourage her to go somewhere where they are saying that they want her and have lots of experience in meeting similar needs, not somewhere that's begrudgingly taking her under pressure.

@HoppingPavlova is spot on.

As for
This is terrible advice. Teens who get pregnant are better off if they stay in school and maintain friendships.

But her friendships won’t last, not properly. She’ll be with the current GCSE year as she’ll skip a year. Her current friends (who are relieved they aren’t in the same boat) will be focused on UCAS forms and looking forward to university.

Being in a school sixth form when you are 19 and have a toddler and all your friends have left and you are stuck on the outside of established friendship groups with the year below sounds utterly shit.

Instead of reinforcing this 16 yos normal fear and apprehension of changing to a large 6th form with new people and new systems and no uniform and more grown up attitude to independent learning then the actual adults in her life should be showing her the positive side. She’ll have more flexibility with her timetable so it will be easier with childcare, there will be a lot more autistic and dyslexic students than in her current school and they will have better support in place, it will give her the chance to make new friends, larger cohorts after mean better support like lunchtime drop in sessions for homework help, she will likely have around 15 hours of contact time for 3 A-levels with half days and possibly even whole days off so she can manage her time around the baby better, there may be a crèche, or dedicated support for young mums.
You can’t dismiss the most appropriate educational setting for a 19yo mother (which is what she will be by the end of this) because some fictional lecturer who she doesn’t know might not tell her off for not handing her homework in. My ds goes to a massive college and all his teachers would pull him up on not submitting work. University students get pulled up in this.
This is a fabulous opportunity to make a fresh start and establish her life as a student mum. It’s not appropriate to try to shove her backwards into school as if that will turn the clock back to before covid, before boyfriend, before pregnancy.

I find the justification of fear of change for staying at a school, when the girl’s life is about to be torpedoed by one of the biggest changes of all, truly bizarre. The biggest change she has to deal with immediately is dealing with life with a baby.

That will be a massive challenge for an autistic teen baby and it may well take longer than for a NT teen.

The world will look very, very different the other side of this.

At that point, if she does go back into education, may not happen for a couple of years anyway, if ever, the place that is most appropriate is the place that is the most supportive to her needs at that time.

Being in a school sixth form when you are 19 and have a toddler and all your friends have left and you are stuck on the outside of established friendship groups with the year below sounds utterly shit.

That’s the reality. That’s a fundamental change that will make a familiar place feel alien that is not being factored in.

To be fair to the OP, I can see the attraction of trying to keep as much the same as possible when such huge changes are imminent. It must be tempting to focus on what you can possibly control when there is so much that you can't.
But I agree with those who are saying that it won't be the same anyway, and relationships with friends are inevitably going to change. There is no harm in exploring a return to the same school as an option, but I wouldn't assume that it's the best option and I think it is very important that the OP's god daughter is encouraged to understand that things won't be the same and to explore all the choices open to her.

@redhilary

What ESA group you are put in can be down to how correctly or incorrectly you fill the boxes in . There are people with Masters Degree's in the Support group.

However, I was being flippant there because that is what the ex boyfriend thinks would help them pay and to live in a flat together.

Oh Yes the ex boyfriend 10 months older than my Goddaughter, the sort every parent would walk 500 miles to make sure their daughter avoided him. Permanently expelled from school for multiple offences. These, including selling weed on school premises, swearing at teachers and smashing chairs up. I wonder where Goddaughter got her ideas for her defiant actions.

The really tragic thing about this though is this is the first boy, I think she has not only dated but actually had a grown up conversation with. Goddaughter Autism means in terms of maturity, she is more like my 13 year old DD2, than DD1 15, indeed DD1 has always protected her like a big sister despite being 13 months younger. Up to about a couple years ago if My friend and I went out together with the girls it would be DD1 trying to get my Goddaughter to leave her mother and me and do something on their own. She was/is very shy and nervous
This is why I think the thought of 3000 or so strangers in an F.E or Sixth Form College is scary for her. She feels comfortable in a environment where you might get a Detention for not handing in your Homework and wear school uniform/dress code. These are like security blankets to her, therefore understands the procedures and likes the conformity they bring. She would feel uneasy and scared in a environment such as a F.E college where a lecturer might not even tell her off for not handing in a piece of work.

The ‘security in familiarity’ ship has sailed OP. Even if she returns to the same school, with all its rules her environment has changed irrevocably. Her friends will be focused on different things. She’s not even going to be in the same class as them. She will have a baby and everybody knows. She’s not going to conform on the contrary she’ll stick out like a sore thumb, especially if teachers are going to be making lots of allowances for her.

I’m aware of how structure and rigidity is important for autistic people inclined that way but the point is it’s too late for her.

Her world has changed. Unless you’re going to give the baby up for adoption, or her mother is going to raise it independently of her, she is a mother now. And babies are unpredictable. they don’t cry, get hungry or shit themselves on a set schedule.

The point of this OP is whether a return is feasible. I think it isn’t based on what you have said. And even if she does manage to go back and complete her A-levels you will simply be pushing the consequences further down the road. What happens when she goes to university- not only completely new but a very unstructured environment?

@NumberTheory AIBU is generally vicious but this thread isn’t - pp have made valid points.

Also OP - if it wasn’t clear - trying to keep her mentally healthy by getting her back into grammar school is like trying to seal a leak on a ship with sticky tape. The bigger change is her having a baby. It will have larger repurcussions for a long time . You must help her deal with change now, rather than trying to keep things as familiar as possible. It’s gone, and won’t come back. Even if she does manage to pass A levels with support she will breakdown at the next stage if not primed for how monumental having a baby actually is.

@Shadedog

Being in a school sixth form when you are 19 and have a toddler and all your friends have left and you are stuck on the outside of established friendship groups with the year below sounds utterly shit.

Instead of reinforcing this 16 yos normal fear and apprehension of changing to a large 6th form with new people and new systems and no uniform and more grown up attitude to independent learning then the actual adults in her life should be showing her the positive side. She’ll have more flexibility with her timetable so it will be easier with childcare, there will be a lot more autistic and dyslexic students than in her current school and they will have better support in place, it will give her the chance to make new friends, larger cohorts after mean better support like lunchtime drop in sessions for homework help, she will likely have around 15 hours of contact time for 3 A-levels with half days and possibly even whole days off so she can manage her time around the baby better, there may be a crèche, or dedicated support for young mums.
You can’t dismiss the most appropriate educational setting for a 19yo mother (which is what she will be by the end of this) because some fictional lecturer who she doesn’t know might not tell her off for not handing her homework in. My ds goes to a massive college and all his teachers would pull him up on not submitting work. University students get pulled up in this.
This is a fabulous opportunity to make a fresh start and establish her life as a student mum. It’s not appropriate to try to shove her backwards into school as if that will turn the clock back to before covid, before boyfriend, before pregnancy.

The last sentence describes it perfectly!

Being 19 and in school Sixth Form is not an issue for an immature girl . I would actually see that as benefit. However, Posters on here seem to think everybody by the age of 18 should be living independent lives, running a household and having no influence or guidance from their parents.

I would not be bothered if Goddaughter stayed in the schools Sixth Form until 21 ! Thus, if she came out with 3 D grades at A Level no problem she can redo them later. Academic grades despite what posters think are not the be all and end all here.

When her mother took her to visit an F.E College, she refused to enter the building because of fear of the unknown.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-50139692

I am fearful this could happen to my Goddaughter just for being Autistic, different and acting in a manner which is not considered normal for a 18 year old girl. (I am going to start a thread about how some young vulnerable Autistic people in 'Care' homes are treated worse than how Wayne Cousins will spend his time in Prison). This can and does happen to academically able Autistic (whether that's below Mumsnet average ).

I want her in a place where she is comfortable, familiar. Therefore, not likely to freak out not knowing the terms of the place , the actions of individuals and the social structures around her

P.S the authorities wanted me placed in one of these type of facilities, despite having 3 B's at A Level. So don't suggest that the (Academically Average can't end up in these places).

Misprint Normal for a (17 or 18) year old girl before I get called out by some posters...

It’s a massive leap from not being allowed to stay in a setting which may well not be suitable to being a psychiatric inpatient! I’m not sure such dramatics will help anyone.

For now focus on getting her and the baby settled and happy. Everything else can wait. If she wants to be a mother to the baby then she is going to need support and to be able to focus her energy on that. She can go to college or whatever in the future when the time is right.

A levels aren’t the be all and end all

Being 19 and in school Sixth Form is not an issue for an immature girl . I would actually see that as benefit. However, Posters on here seem to think everybody by the age of 18 should be living independent lives, running a household and having no influence or guidance from their parents.

She’s having a baby! You need to stop minimising that fact OP. It isn’t going to help

She can’t be an immature 19 year old in a school. That ship sailed when she decided to keep the baby.

@LittleBearPad

Being 19 and in school Sixth Form is not an issue for an immature girl . I would actually see that as benefit. However, Posters on here seem to think everybody by the age of 18 should be living independent lives, running a household and having no influence or guidance from their parents.

She’s having a baby! You need to stop minimising that fact OP. It isn’t going to help

She can’t be an immature 19 year old in a school. That ship sailed when she decided to keep the baby.

I agree. Encouraging the immaturity is only going to make things harder for her and confuse boundaries.

What would she have done if her school didn’t have a sixth form? What is she proposing to do after A-levels? She must leave school at some point and you and her mother shouldn’t be pretending to her that she can stay until she is 25 (or even 19). Schools are for children and there are very good reasons why adults aren’t admitted as pupils.
She is having an actual baby and I really don’t understand why you are ignoring this rather pertinent fact and waffling on about sixth form colleges being an equivalent to secure psychiatric units and at the same time places where everyone who attends lives alone and runs a household and for some reason doesn’t have to hand their homework in. Is she an immature kid or is she a mother? Does she want to do A-levels or does she want to refuse to go inside the college?

@Shadedog

What would she have done if her school didn’t have a sixth form? What is she proposing to do after A-levels? She must leave school at some point and you and her mother shouldn’t be pretending to her that she can stay until she is 25 (or even 19). Schools are for children and there are very good reasons why adults aren’t admitted as pupils. She is having an actual baby and I really don’t understand why you are ignoring this rather pertinent fact and waffling on about sixth form colleges being an equivalent to secure psychiatric units and at the same time places where everyone who attends lives alone and runs a household and for some reason doesn’t have to hand their homework in. Is she an immature kid or is she a mother? Does she want to do A-levels or does she want to refuse to go inside the college?

Quite. OP keeps saying that the girl would only feel safe at school and couldn't cope with a new place/was too scared to walk into a FE college. I don't mean this unkindly, but does OP think girl can stay at school forever? At some point she will have to leave. If she wants to do a degree (or more likely if mum wants her to) she will have to brave university. Change is unavoidable so it may be better to get settled somewhere new sooner rather than later. Did I understand correctly that druggie boyfriend wants them to set up home together? Will girl be able to cope at all with the stress of a screaming unpredictable baby? OK she can abdicate all parenting to her own mother but maybe adoption would also be a choice if she really can't cope? The baby's wellbeing must come first. Girl will soon be a legal adult. If she freaks out at the massive stress of having a baby around or doesn't like the experience of being back at school in a different year group without her friends, there'll be nothing legally to stop her from dropping out and taking off to live with druggie boyfriend. Then it'll be up to social services to make sure the baby is safe.

It's understandable that you're feeling protective of your goddaughter, but I think it's important not to catastrophise here.

Yes, there's been a bit of discussion about exam results and some differing views, but nobody is saying she can't achieve her academic hopes - just that the way she achieves them might need to be different if she is going to have parental responsibilities.

Nobody has come even close to suggesting that she should be in any form of psychiatric inpatient setting, let alone a secure one. She wouldn't come remotely close to meeting the admission requirements for a secure unit unless she were displaying really serious challenging and aggressive behaviour, which would be way more than unintentionally breaking a chair (far worse things than that happen every day in schools up and down the country, it's not a huge deal). Education and healthcare are two completely different systems so whether or not she stays at a grammar school will not influence whether she meets admission requirements for secure psychiatric inpatient care.

I don't think anyone has suggested that she should be running her own household independently at 18. But her responsibilities and lifestyle are about to change dramatically and she needs to have appropriate support in place for this. Unless she's going to have no parental responsibilities in the household and have her own mother fully raise the child, she is going to have to prioritise her child and fit her own studies and activities around them. She needs to be prepared for this.

If she's keen to stay at her current school if possible, then it's reasonable to explore whether that's feasible. But there should also be a back-up plan for if the school says it's not an option or if for whatever reason she can't go back there.

@redhilary

Being 19 and in school Sixth Form is not an issue for an immature girl . I would actually see that as benefit. However, Posters on here seem to think everybody by the age of 18 should be living independent lives, running a household and having no influence or guidance from their parents.

I would not be bothered if Goddaughter stayed in the schools Sixth Form until 21 ! Thus, if she came out with 3 D grades at A Level no problem she can redo them later. Academic grades despite what posters think are not the be all and end all here.

When her mother took her to visit an F.E College, she refused to enter the building because of fear of the unknown.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-50139692

I am fearful this could happen to my Goddaughter just for being Autistic, different and acting in a manner which is not considered normal for a 18 year old girl. (I am going to start a thread about how some young vulnerable Autistic people in 'Care' homes are treated worse than how Wayne Cousins will spend his time in Prison). This can and does happen to academically able Autistic (whether that's below Mumsnet average ).

I want her in a place where she is comfortable, familiar. Therefore, not likely to freak out not knowing the terms of the place , the actions of individuals and the social structures around her

P.S the authorities wanted me placed in one of these type of facilities, despite having 3 B's at A Level. So don't suggest that the (Academically Average can't end up in these places).

Your argument is as follows: Goddaughter will freak out in new places. Therefore grammar school has to keep her because there is NO other option. If goddaughter goes to a new place she will freak out and end up in a psychiatric unit.

Ok... then what will happen when she goes to university?

Grammar school and its familiarity may look like a good option now but it's kicking the can down the road. Also she may be refusing because in her mind she can still go back to grammar school, back to the way things were.

It's not the grammar school that she wants. It's the way things were and all that it represents. But that doesn't exist anymore. You're not acknowledging this point despite lots of pp telling you multiple times.

It won't be easy, but choosing the 'easy' path will result in more difficulties later. That's just the way it is. Trust me I have dealt with a lot of autistic people (including autistic DP) and rational will not convince them.
Their anxiety overwhelms them so much they choose denial. However the way around it isn't to go along with what they want in the short term, because it will fall apart when the next challenge comes along.

I know PP have said the girls' opinions etc should be listened to but from this it looks like she herself hasn't accepted just how much her life has changed. And you have to help her cope with it, not deny it.

I really feel for you because it's very very hard to do, and takes various strategies, cajoling etc etc. But it's worth it in the end.

I was pregnant at 17 at an all girl's grammar and they also tried to push me out. My mum fought for me but the support just wasn't there and I ended up leaving. I started again at a rough inner London college known for crap results but the pastoral care was amazing and I left with 4 As and got into a top 5 uni!!

Sorry can't be any help with regards to the legal ins and outs but I guess what I'm saying is it may well not be the right school for her, even if what they're doing is wrong I'd probably see if there was somewhere else that will welcome and support her not try and shove her out (whilst, presumably, the father will merrily continue his education with minimal disruption!)

• girls' grammar not girl's grrr!

I have an autistic ds.

Get her out of there. A school that is more concerned about image and grades over pastoral care is never the right place for any student but more so than one with autism who also has dyslexia.

Start now to talk to other places. What will they offer, how will they help? What childcare is available etc. find somewhere where you get the attitude of "we want friends ds here and want to help her".

Yeah - the grammar may have a duty if care etc. but if you are having to waste time fighting for that rather than supporting a vulnerable young adult then you're fighting the wrong fight.

I say that from experience