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AIBU?

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Original poster

Is this a sackable offence?

203 replies

JCFJW · 21/10/2021 00:20

Not me, asking on behalf of a teenage relative who is in a state after being told she may get suspended/sacked and she’s worried about it affecting her plans of working in hospitality abroad.

Potwash in a busy family restaurant. The training on chemical handling is a 5 minute online course. She has been there 5 months. Today she went to get detergent from the chemical cupboard. Key is kept in potwash area, chemical cupboard is downstairs next to the toilets so not locked in a staff only area. She forgot to lock the door after being in there and returned the key to its usual spot. It wasn’t noticed the whole night. Supervisor noticed it during closing and was fuming, and is going to arrange a disciplinary meeting. She told my relative “You could have killed a child if they had gone in and drank the chemicals.” The chemicals all have tight seals on.

This supervisor has bullied my relative and other potwash staff before before, making up problems. My relative was in the wrong but because of the supervisor’s previous behaviour I’m not sure how rational her reaction was and whether relative should expect punishment. Thoughts?

OP posts:
SofiaMichelle · 22/10/2021 21:47

RTFT, perhaps..?

Debbacat6 · 22/10/2021 22:11

Gross misconduct
Dismissal without notice or they could pay notice. But Yes, GM
She could try abject apology but has very few rights

Extraonions · 22/10/2021 22:17

I’m 49 now, but between 16 and 20 I worked in various restaurants and pubs … met some horrible managers, some really nasty ones who seemed to get a kick out ion bullying younger members of staff.

She should leave, there will be better hospitality jobs out there … with proper training, proper support, and proper development.

Harmonypuss · 22/10/2021 22:44

@1vandal2

^The question what is the worst thing that could happen is in all health and safety training and the answer is someone could die.
That is why it is serious.^

I totally agree with this.

Last year there was a girl who worked at the chocolate company (not Cadbury, wrong part of the country) that my son worked at and she walked into the factory, saw a black plastic box on the floor, she picked it up and placed it on the production line conveyor.

My son saw her do this and immediately hit the big red button which stopped the whole production line and he reported it to management.

The girl (21yrs old) had no concept of what she'd done wrong.

Firstly, you done pick something up off the floor and put it onto a food production line, secondly, the box she picked up was actually a vermin trap (and had a picture of a rat embossed on it) that someone else had wrongly brought into the production unit.

The whole production area had to be shut down and was deep cleaned (2 day process) before anything else could be produced.

This girl had been with the company for about 4 months, done all the H&S training but this was her 3rd balls-up in a many weeks. Needless to say, she got the boot. They did discover who'd brought the box into the unit and he received a written warning.

Moral..... anything that could cause someone to be ill or hurt, needs at the very least a serious warning in the first instance and dismissal if another instance occurs.

justasking111 · 22/10/2021 22:57

@Felix125

But COSHH trumps any company policy - and he should have carried out a risk assessment and justify his storage methods, access and security in a busy restaurant.

If he hasn't dome that properly, he can't just blame the incident on an 'forgetful' staff member.

She should resign stating these grounds. She'll get another job and be happier
CrankyFrankie · 22/10/2021 23:13

Who lets their toddler roam free raiding cupboards in restaurants anyway? Can’t say I’ve ever seen that, even in (Pre-Brexit when I occasionally frequented) Wetherspoons

exaltedwombat · 22/10/2021 23:15

This isn't about training. She knew she should have locked the door.

If the chemicals were stored in a staff-only area, they wouldn't need to be locked up. They're in a locked cupboard BECAUSE it's a customer-accessible area.

If a safety inspector had discovered that unlocked cupboard, the (admittedly minimal) risk might have been dramatised to the maximum. Imagine an alternative Mumsnet thread: 'We visited this restaurant, and discovered cleaning chemicals in an unlocked cupboard next to the customer toilets. What if MY CHILD had...?'

Get it now?

zoemum2006 · 22/10/2021 23:44

The manager is being a dick because there needs to be more checks in place. Which is his responsibility. Not a young, inexperience junior team member.

I’d just leave and get a job elsewhere. Waitresses are in short supply at the moment.

Original poster
JCFJW · 23/10/2021 01:45

I don’t know the ins and outs about Spain. Just that her and her friends are getting jobs in Ibiza through an agency and are basically going to party party party. She went in to work today and the supervisor wasn’t in. Main manager didn’t even mention the incident. Niece reckons supervisor was trying to mess with her head and scare her. She still handed her notice in and has a trial shift next week at a local bar.

She also spoke to another colleague who feels bullied and humiliated by the supervisor as well which has made her feel better over it not just being her.

OP posts:
jontyl · 23/10/2021 06:47

Why are cleaning chemicals not just stored in a locked chemical cupboard near the place of use.

chocolateorangeinhaler · 23/10/2021 07:13

Your relative needs to ask if a risk assessment has been done on the storage area and how often it's re assessed.

So the supervisor has identified that the door could inadvertently be left open. Knows the danger to the health of the public yet nothings been done to mitigate the risk??? Why???

A Yale or key code lock that automatically locks when the door closes would instantly remove this risk. It needs to be done urgently IMO. Get your relative to suggest this to the owners - in writing. They can't argue they want to leave the store less secure.

It's them in the wrong here not the relative.

Warblerinwinter · 23/10/2021 07:23

This is about risk assessment and fool proofing. A potential easy fix is

  1. Have a door on a Yale type latch that automatically swings shut and locks and cannot be left open
  2. Have a key pad entry system so that no one unauthorised can get at keys
Both simple if management were actually taking safety seriously. They’re not. A key that has to be taken to lock the cupboard afterwards is not fool proof. Anyone, and I bet it is not the first time, can get distracted and forget to lock it. The incident with your niece should be recorded and investigated as a near miss. Then as part of that they’d realise that their safety measures are inadequate and come up with something like the above Merely giving staff a bullocking does not make the place safer, actually more unsafe as staff will stop reporting and owning up to near misses if they get threatened Write this in a letter to defend herself, send it to management
Warblerinwinter · 23/10/2021 07:24

@chocolateorangeinhaler

Your relative needs to ask if a risk assessment has been done on the storage area and how often it's re assessed.

So the supervisor has identified that the door could inadvertently be left open. Knows the danger to the health of the public yet nothings been done to mitigate the risk??? Why???

A Yale or key code lock that automatically locks when the door closes would instantly remove this risk. It needs to be done urgently IMO. Get your relative to suggest this to the owners - in writing. They can't argue they want to leave the store less secure.

It's them in the wrong here not the relative.

Ha…got there first - snap
tttigress · 23/10/2021 07:32

Obviously she made a mistake and will hopefully learn a lesson.

But she is a pot washer, not a surgeon, these are fairly commodity jobs, I really doubt if serious background checks are done for such jobs.

There is currently a labour shortage, so if she feels like a new job, just get one.

Also, I imagine the supervisor has forgotten about it, rather than trying to phycologically torture her.

maternitycoat · 23/10/2021 07:42

I think she should resign

Sooo many jobs out there. She will get a new job elsewhere in the blink of an eye

myheartskippedabeat · 23/10/2021 07:56

@JCFJW
They sound awful it was a simple mistake

If I was her I'd never go back

Dibbydoos · 23/10/2021 09:56

Some managers have a real power problem. Keeping chemicals in a public area even if locked isn't a good idea at all. They need to relocate the chemicals imo.

Your poor niece should get a warning, nothing else. This was a near miss no actual damage, thankfully.

Help her to stop guilting herself too. We all make mistakes don't we. Hmm

On another note, I'd suggest she finds a different job because no matter what this manager is power tripping and needs to learn how to manage people - which may never happen if she is not told how poorly she performs. Your neice deserves better, she sounds like a decent person, admitting her mistake straight away.

Pythonista · 23/10/2021 09:58

There is no excuse for managers to bully staff. However young teens often have attitude problems or can't be arsed to do things so actually it can be very frustrating

ScreamingBeans · 23/10/2021 10:14

She needs to tell the manager that the reason she's leaving is because of the supervisor and other staff are also feeling bullied by her but are too concerned for their jobs to complain.

The manager needs to know that the supervisor needs some management training.

Pythonista · 23/10/2021 10:25

@ScreamingBeans

She needs to tell the manager that the reason she's leaving is because of the supervisor and other staff are also feeling bullied by her but are too concerned for their jobs to complain.

The manager needs to know that the supervisor needs some management training.

The management will be aware.
50ShadesOfCatholic · 23/10/2021 17:12

@maternitycoat

I think she should resign

Sooo many jobs out there. She will get a new job elsewhere in the blink of an eye

She has ^
Original poster
JCFJW · 23/10/2021 17:57

She’s working her notice at the minute and I’ve had a barrage of texts on her break whinging about the supervisor.

She’s apparently been ripping the shit out of customer’s appearances to her and called one woman gormless.

How does such an individual become a supervisor in the hospitality industry?

OP posts:
DicklessWonder · 23/10/2021 18:25

Shagging the boss, usually.

Pythonista · 23/10/2021 19:15

They barely get paid more than the staff. And they are expected to wrangle young kids who really can't be arsed

50ShadesOfCatholic · 23/10/2021 22:52

@JCFJW

She’s working her notice at the minute and I’ve had a barrage of texts on her break whinging about the supervisor.

She’s apparently been ripping the shit out of customer’s appearances to her and called one woman gormless.

How does such an individual become a supervisor in the hospitality industry?

To be frank, if you lie with dogs you get fleas.

Your neice needs to detach rather than fixating on this supervisor. You have established that the supervisor is unpleasant and unprofessional. Your neice needs to focus on getting out of there with minimal drama and going into her next job with a great attitude.