Is this a sackable offence?

[JCFJW]

Not me, asking on behalf of a teenage relative who is in a state after being told she may get suspended/sacked and she’s worried about it affecting her plans of working in hospitality abroad.

Potwash in a busy family restaurant. The training on chemical handling is a 5 minute online course. She has been there 5 months. Today she went to get detergent from the chemical cupboard. Key is kept in potwash area, chemical cupboard is downstairs next to the toilets so not locked in a staff only area. She forgot to lock the door after being in there and returned the key to its usual spot. It wasn’t noticed the whole night. Supervisor noticed it during closing and was fuming, and is going to arrange a disciplinary meeting. She told my relative “You could have killed a child if they had gone in and drank the chemicals.” The chemicals all have tight seals on.

This supervisor has bullied my relative and other potwash staff before before, making up problems. My relative was in the wrong but because of the supervisor’s previous behaviour I’m not sure how rational her reaction was and whether relative should expect punishment. Thoughts?

@Felix125

The supervisor is female. That's what she OP says. Its pretty sad that you've just assumed the senior staff member is a man, even when it says otherwise.

Agree with verbal warning outcome as per pp.
Ex union rep here.
Others may handle this differently, but, if she was my member I would advise her to go into the meeting contrite - not arsey and argumentative - though, from your description, she doesn't sound like either.
She made a mistake.
Own it, apologise for it, leave them in no doubt she is only too aware of the potential seriousness of this mistake and that she has learned from it and will not be repeating it.

The restaurant's dubious storage system is an argument for either another day or, if she has one, her union rep.
Don't fan the flames.
Good luck. Poor soul.

@WorraLiberty

No need to be rude. The company will be following COSHH so I think COSHH is relevant.

@JCFJW

If a child or vulnerable adult had drank the chemicals and died, I don’t think the restaurant would have been entirely devoid of responsibility personally. Why would you keep the chemical cupboard between the customer toilets and keep the key by the restaurant floor free for anybody to take?

Niece knows it’s really serious and that her actions could have left a child or vulnerable adult hospitalised or dead and she’s in a state about it. The agency she’s going to Spain with have said she HAS to have 2 references. She already left an apprenticeship due to harassment from a male colleague so I really am feeling like shit for her.

She did mess up but it’s something I easily could see myself doing and I really hope it can’t mess up her plans.

Tell her to quit as it's likely she'll get fired (it sounds like the manager has it in for her) and encourage her to get a job in a bar/volunteering role in a charity shop. She can use them as a reference.

Or hire her to clean for you and you be her reference

@Felix125

But COSHH trumps any company policy - and he should have carried out a risk assessment and justify his storage methods, access and security in a busy restaurant.

If he hasn't dome that properly, he can't just blame the incident on an 'forgetful' staff member.

She has clearly done that and the policy is for staff members to lock the cupboard.

If that was adhered to, it wouldn't matter where the cupboard was.

I know the bullying doesn’t absolve my niece from her dangerous mistake. But the consequences she faces won’t be coming from a neutral party.

[quote JCFJW]@WorraLiberty

No need to be rude. The company will be following COSHH so I think COSHH is relevant.[/quote]
How on earth am I being rude?

The bottom line is she forgot to lock the cupboard. That's what she's in trouble for - the bullying needs to be dealt with separately.

I can't see her getting sacked for it and even if she is, it won't stop her getting another job as a pot washer, especially abroad.

It is very unlikely that that supervisor has the power of hiring and sacking.

You say there is a higher up manager who dealt with her chronic condition information. It's likely that company policy will move and disciplinary up the chain.

And yes, COSHH is entirely relevant here.

So as per COSHH guidelines and company policy the door needs to be locked.

Worra you do come across a bit rude.

It doesn't matter that you've found that online.

Is a bit rude.

I’m not minimising it. The whole reason I’m asking on a forum is to get a realistic idea of what will happen to tell her as she asked me for advice. Her parents are minimising it and blaming it all on the restaurant and saying she did nothing wrong.

Right, but you are though.

All the excuses you've given here and all the, "yeah, but what about this" cannot come out of her mouth during a disciplinary if she wants to keep her job.

You wanted advice. There is some advice. Take it or leave it.

Apologies - She. I didn't assume, I just misread

You'll be surprised how many companies are not fully COSHH compliant.

Each chemical must have its own risk assessment and its upto date data sheet.

@WorraLiberty

And yes, COSHH is entirely relevant here.

So as per COSHH guidelines and company policy the door needs to be locked.

And was she shown the risk assessment at any point?

Whatever you find online is irrelevant

Every company has their own policy around official guidelines

I think this is a big lesson for your Bruce. She was trusted yet 'forgot'.

Honestly OP, all this worry and panic you’ve said she’s feeling, not to mention the nastiness of this supervisor, is simply not worth it for this job, assuming it’s not something she wants to make a career out of long term. For the sake of doing the same sort of job in Spain for a bit, just do what PPs suggested, hire her yourself to clean for you (or not) then you just be one of her references. It’s really not that big of a deal (i know it probably is for her but generally…its not).

Giving ALL of the relevant context, about the location of the chemical cupboard isn’t minimising at all! In fact, by confirming the chemical cupboard is in a public place I did the opposite.

I do stand behind the fact it’s a bit weird to have the cupboard out there and not locked in the staff area and to keep the key on the restaurant floor. If somebody had died I think that would have come up in the inquest. But nobody did die so yes, it’s not relevant.

I would just tell the truth. It was busy and it was an accidental oversight.

She should receive a verbal warning at most.
If they push for anything further - its probably not the best company to work for.

Did Bruce leave the door open too @gardeninggirl68?
Strewth.

The thing is OP....it's a pot washing job. They're ten a penny. This is a life lesson for your niece. She's not valued there.

Tell her to bugger off and leave and get a new job.

*neice

@SoniaFouler

Tbh yes, I don’t think it’s worth it. It was a stupid mistake but she’s absolutely breaking her heart and has been crying about it. The guilty of potentially killing somebody and her friends already have jobs secured in Spain and she’s devastated at the thought of missing out on it because of this. She’s just really kicking herself and I do feel awful for her. She’s had a terrible year and her mental health isn’t great anyway (no, it doesn’t absolve her nor should it). It’s all just a bit crap.

I think my auntie-advice is going to be that it’s not worth it, especially considering the supervisor is a vile piece of work who makes her feel disgusting over the fact she has a chronic illness. I’ll probably tell her to sack in off and get another hospitality job to secure the reference.

I think you are overthinking this. There is a massive labour shortage in hospitality at the moment - she could quit and get a job somewhere else in a heartbeat. No need to tell new employer about her previous bad experience - just position herself as keen, hard working, reliable, willing to learn.

I think it's an easy mistake to make and most places, because nothing bad happened, would just give a warning. However, it seems like this is on top of flooding the kitchen and asking how she should get a pot out of a hot oven. Something I would think an 18yo would be able to do without asking. And maybe there are other things you're not aware of. So it could be the manager will look at this as an opportunity to get shut of her.
But there's a massive staff shortage in the hospitality industry so you might find the owner can't afford to sack her. Alternatively, everywhere I turn there are signs saying hiring now. As working there is so miserable for her, I'd advise her to apply elsewhere where she can have an enjoyable work experience.

@madisonbridges.

She didn’t flood the kitchen. The grease trap overflowed slightly on her first shift before she’d been trained on it.

The oven is a big massive industrial pizza oven and the chef was using the paddle. There was no protection and she’s had no safety training on that oven.