Is this a sackable offence?

[JCFJW]

Not me, asking on behalf of a teenage relative who is in a state after being told she may get suspended/sacked and she’s worried about it affecting her plans of working in hospitality abroad.

Potwash in a busy family restaurant. The training on chemical handling is a 5 minute online course. She has been there 5 months. Today she went to get detergent from the chemical cupboard. Key is kept in potwash area, chemical cupboard is downstairs next to the toilets so not locked in a staff only area. She forgot to lock the door after being in there and returned the key to its usual spot. It wasn’t noticed the whole night. Supervisor noticed it during closing and was fuming, and is going to arrange a disciplinary meeting. She told my relative “You could have killed a child if they had gone in and drank the chemicals.” The chemicals all have tight seals on.

This supervisor has bullied my relative and other potwash staff before before, making up problems. My relative was in the wrong but because of the supervisor’s previous behaviour I’m not sure how rational her reaction was and whether relative should expect punishment. Thoughts?

Nothing happened so she shouldn't be sacked. It should be recorded as a near miss and steps should be put in place to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Bless her feeling so upset. That manager is just being a hard ass. No need for it. Honestly, the vacancy levels in hospitality are scary. They won't want to lose her over a genuine mistake. She needs to be conciliatory and apologetic. Let him grandstand and accept the ticking off. Maybe a verbal warning would be my bet

She asked around at a few places after we had lunch in town and has come home with a few application forms so all seems well!

If it takes an employee to forget to lock the cupboard and it being an extreme risk for children then the risk assessment is not thorough enough. It would be clear the cupboard is a risk and a lock of this type is not suitable for the location. Had something happened it would have been the responsibility of the business owners. It is obvious that this is still a poor solution for storing hazardous materials.

@Boulshired

I agree. Whilst it doesn’t negate my niece’s mistake, human error can and does happen and surely measures should be in place for that? Questions would be raised as to why the supervisor didn’t notice the door was open the whole night, and why there isn’t a proper code-lock system as the other doors have them according to DN.

Those people who are saying the niece needs to use her initiative about how to do something safely, you are just so very wrong.

When it comes to H&S, you need to be trained how to do something safely if you have no experience of it. Lots of things you think are just commonsense, actually have processes and protocols attached which need to be followed in order to minimise the risk of a mishap. An organisation which doesn't have a protocol, or has one but doesn't follow it, or allows staff to do things without training them on it, will be liable if anything goes wrong.

Telling inexperienced, untrained people to use their initiative in a dangerous environment, is fucking stupid to be frank.

Tell her to move on. Just ride it out and don't create a scenario that has not happened. She forgot to lock the door. No one was hurt. Now wait for the consequences and learn from this. This does not mean her dream of Spain is over. It just means her job at potwash is over. We have all made mistakes.

Employment lawyer here. That's over the top, there is no way the employer's processes would stand up to scrutiny. At most this should be a written warning and then if your relative repeated the mistake there is a basis to take further.

But it's a mistake! There's no bad intention here and it can't be taken further in such a way that it would jeopardise your contact's prospects overseas. We all know there is a hospitality staffing crisis - tell her to take it on the chin, move employers and get a decent reference to move forward. And as she's young, encourage her not to overfocus on this. Mistakes happen and you learn from them.

Get her to speak to ACAS and get some advise from them. They will be able to give her advise on what to do and how to handle the disciplinary.
She should also have the right to appeal the decision made if she is disciplined and it will go to her supervisor's manager. They will hopefully be more level headed and overturn the decision made if it doesn't fit the crime. In this instance I would expect a written warning on her file for 12 months but it will depend on company policy and whether it is classed as gross misconduct.

Also if your niece is being bullied, she needs to raise it especially if it's happened to more people than her. It could be the company want to get rid of the supervisor bit don't currently have enough evidence and she could be the one that changes that. ACAS will be able to give her help with that as well. 🙂
Good luck to your niece!

Sorry,
If he wants she can be sacked for that.
Exactly for the reason he gave.
Can be difficult to happen but not impossible.
That’s why also she had to have a 5 minutes training and sign for that. She’s been trained and she knows the reason too.

Specially dealing with hazardous products.
She just need to be careful and attentive to this really.
Bullying, happens in all restaurants to be honest. Some managers feel like they are kings and are bloody bullies.
After that if he does anything I would put a complaint and register all the bugling with dates and hours .
Happened to me and I’ve been sacked.- the bullying-
:(

Ask ACAS for advice , she doesn’t have to be in a union . I would have thought a verbal warning is sufficient

I lived in Spain for 14 years and this will not affect her being able to work in a restaurant. She should have had a warning and that be the end of it. Seeing her as upset as she was should be enough punishment.

Is there a manager and a supervisor, this is a good time for them to Carry out a risk assessment, have a locked cupboard with detergents and chemicals safely locked up in the kitchen area instead. If I were your dd I would leave one find something a bit more rewarding where the staff are nice to each other.

It’s such a strong market for willing and enthusiastic works, tell her to resign and take her willingness elsewhere, the manager is being a bit over zealous in my opinion. Your relative is punishing herself enough by the sound of it.

I see staff wanted notices daily outside pubs and restaurants around here. I think she should just resign and move on; leave this off her CV. Supervisor sounds like a bully.
As an ex employer I’d say this is a warning, re-doing of training ( in person, with a senior staff member) and definitely not sackable.

If they wish they can sack her for anything as she hasn’t been there too long. Phone ACAS if in doubt. Sounds like she’d be happier somewhere else. Plenty of jobs just now in UK

Yes, that sounds like a sackable offence to me

@SoniaFouler

I haven’t worked abroad but would she need a reference to do pot washing in a restaurant for a few months in Spain? (Not trying to make a point, genuinely don’t know?)

Also, why on Earth are the chemicals stored next to the customer toilets? Sounds like a health hazard to me, cupboard locked or not.

References aren't a big thing in many countries. I don't know about Spain particularly, but what is the relevance of that anyway?

A risk assessment should have been completed on hazardous chemicals being kept in an area which is open to public access. Ask to see it. Check that it has been completed within the time frame, should be annually or bi-annually. It may be that this has not been complied with which could be a reason for others being concerned about their possible complicity.

It's a 5 month job, just leave it off the CV. Is it her first job? Big gaps in a CV can lead to people asking questions, if it's her first job it won't be a problem, just start her CV with her new job. With the pandemic lots of people will have gaps anyway so I don't think it will be an issue.

On the Spain issue is it easy to get work there now we aren't in the EU. I haven't got a clue, just wondered.

Hope she gets something else.

Hmm I think she’s better off out of there anyways by the sounds of it

I hate to say, this is exactly the sort of thing that happened at Cameron house hotel on loch Lomond a few years ago and people went to the jail and two people were killed …
( staff were putting hot embers somewhere flammable and everyone seemed to know but did nothing)

But as the supervisor, they should’ve been checking all these things anyways, before leaving the premises. That’s their job: supervise.

She’s probably taking it hard as it’s her first “f*ck up” in a job? If anything- she’ll find she’s super vigilant in her next post. We’ve all had to learn from our mistakes and so will she. Poor wee lamb

But COSHH trumps any company policy - and he should have carried out a risk assessment and justify his storage methods, access and security in a busy restaurant.

Their policy is fine. Kids and vulnerable people aren’t going to steal the key and drink the chemicals.

Leaving the door unlocked left them vulnerable and that was a mistake. But not one you should be fired for.

I expect it would be pretty easy to get another job right now, no point in OP’s daughter staying in this one.

Also, why on Earth are the chemicals stored next to the customer toilets? Sounds like a health hazard to me, cupboard locked or not.

It isn’t a health hazard.

Very helpful purple rabbit!

If this had happened in our place of work there would have been a team reminder, a verbal warning and revised risk assessment to consider if additional steps are needed (could be something simple like a sign saying “have you locked the door” or moving the chemicals somewhere else).