Is this a sackable offence?

[JCFJW]

Not me, asking on behalf of a teenage relative who is in a state after being told she may get suspended/sacked and she’s worried about it affecting her plans of working in hospitality abroad.

Potwash in a busy family restaurant. The training on chemical handling is a 5 minute online course. She has been there 5 months. Today she went to get detergent from the chemical cupboard. Key is kept in potwash area, chemical cupboard is downstairs next to the toilets so not locked in a staff only area. She forgot to lock the door after being in there and returned the key to its usual spot. It wasn’t noticed the whole night. Supervisor noticed it during closing and was fuming, and is going to arrange a disciplinary meeting. She told my relative “You could have killed a child if they had gone in and drank the chemicals.” The chemicals all have tight seals on.

This supervisor has bullied my relative and other potwash staff before before, making up problems. My relative was in the wrong but because of the supervisor’s previous behaviour I’m not sure how rational her reaction was and whether relative should expect punishment. Thoughts?

"Family businesses and fact that the training was negligible (as well as bullying) are major red flags. Often it's easier to Scape goat junior staff. Hopefully Gordon Ramsay will tear them a new one

If she is only just 18 when she goes for her next job she doesn’t even need to mention she worked at the job she is in now if she gets sacked. When she applies for her next job she could just pretend she hasn’t worked before.

My thoughts are the supervisor is covering her own arse, she will give your relative an official warning but not sack her because the hospitality industry is crying out for staff and a pot washing role isn’t the top of anyone’s list of preferred jobs.

Please reassure her a part time job at 18 will not affect her future career! And I highly doubt a similar job abroad offered to a back packer or whatever will require references from the uk.

I wouldn’t even attend the meeting, she’s 18 and only been their 5months, I’d leave them high and dry over their treatment of her.

It was a daft error - give her agency. Tell her not to allow herself to be bullied and tell her that just leave. As noisily, quietly as she likes. She will get another similar job easily.

It is a sackable offence, he may not if he can't get staff, I know this because I was sacked for a similar thing some years ago after I'd been working 24 hours straight and forgot to lock a chemical cupboard.
I never declared it to future jobs though and nobody ever asked.
It doesn't go on a national record for a job like this so nobody would know.
I'd just look for a new job and pretend this one never happened.

Shehasadiamondinthesky

Careful - don't use He - its a She
I got told off for that a few posts earlier

Whilst there is no “national record for a job” there are HMRC records, some of which can probably be inferred by payroll. Eg having tax deducted in the first month when they supposedly have not worked since April and would have half the year’s tax free allowance to burn through before paying tax were that true.

Restaurants are really struggling to fill vacancies at the moment. She doesn't have to work for this bully. She can hand in her notice and work somewhere else.

She should leave. Not because of this but because she is being bullied and humiliated by this manager.
If it's anything like here, there are endless vacancies in hospitality.

OP, every other cafe, pub and restaurant is advertising for staff these days. I’ve never seen so many job ads in windows before. Your niece will get another job, no hassle.

If there’s a disciplinary hearing she should just apologise for her mistake. How long till she plans to go to Spain? If more than a couple of months, I’d say leave the present job (politely, no point in making sure she doesn’t get a reference!) and get another one in order to have a reference if needed in Spain.

From my experience, kitchens tend to be irritable places to work in, everyone hot and in a hurry. They’re just temp jobs. It looks like a huge disaster to your niece now, but it’s really not. It’s the sort of thing you laugh and groan about with your friends later when you’re all recalling crap jobs you’ve had in the past.

I hope you both got a good night’s sleep in the end, and that all goes well for your niece. What a good aunt you are — that’s worth 100 times more to her than a crappy kitchen job! xx

If she's only been there 5 months they can sack her without reason if they wish to do so. There are lots of hospitality vacancies at present and she should be easily able to pick up work elsewhere.

Also agencies getting people work in restaurants in Spain? How does that work, given Brexit and the fact that Spain doesn't let people just breeze in and take unskilled positions waitressing or washing dishes?

Maybe the DN has an EEA passport.

On the references point can't she ask someone from her old school, or from an activity she used to do?

Look, this will not be the last mistake she makes at work in her life. It's horrible, but she will get over it.

I think it sounds fairly serious (not following policy leading to a near miss) and she might get a warning. It doesn't sound sackable unless there is a history of other errors.

She needs to give a clear impression that she understands the seriousness and is open to changing how she works so the error doesn't happen again. She should be clear that it was a genuine error and she regrets it. She might want to suggest something like a sign on the inside of the door reminding staff to lock it as a way to ensure it doesn't happen again.

[quote FictionalCharacter]@saltinesandcoffeecups At age 18, faced with an unpleasant supervisor and an unfamiliar task, I might not have asked the brightest question either.

The way to teach someone to do a dangerous task is not to stand there and get them to work it out, without giving them the right safety kit, and eyeroll while you tell them what not to do. You teach them how to it safely, always. OP's neice could easily have got severe burns. The employer would have been liable and the supervisor could have been prosecuted. Health & Safety at Work Act, section 7. Unlimited fine if convicted. And a criminal record.[/quote]
Yes, this. Some people are just unpleasant on here. I hope some of you don't manage or supervise people.

The supervisor's actions are bullying.

I agree with the advice to be proactive and contact the general manager to ask for a meeting about the chemicals cupboard.

I worked in kitchens a lot when I was a student, it's not uncommon to come across little Hitler type managers/supervisors. However your niece does need to use her initiative, she's worked there five months, she must know what the chef uses two get the paddle from the oven, she should've used that or asked to borrow it if she couldn't see it. I also don't believe it's isn't possible to get the grease trap out of an industrial dishwasher without spilling grease over the floor having seen and used many. The boss sounds like a pain and your niece doesn't sound suited to the work. At eighteen they expect her to get on with it, at 16 she would've been given a little more leeway. The key issue is a warning rather than gross misconduct, but she needs to go in full of apologies rather than defences blaming the company for where the cupboard is.

Why would a child ever be in a staff only area of a restaurant? I honestly can’t see this ever happening and as you say, the chemicals all have child lock lids anyway. I think your relative will be fine, she can’t be sacked for this.

She needs a new job.

Her supervisor's a cunt who is not giving her proper training, it's vile to treat a young person in this way.

I'm shocked by how many people don't see immediately what a nasty woman the supervisor is. Even if she doesn't get sacked for this mistake, she should leave this toxic atomopshere.

@JCFJW
Honestly op a lot of people on here are giving your niece a hard time. I manage a Category 2 laboratory (microbiologist) and we store lots of poisonous chemicals.
The buck would definitely stop with the manager not a junior member of staff. Probably why the manager kicked off about it because they know their COSHH practices are flawed and quite frankly terrible. And honestly…some cleaning chemicals left available to a member of the public? There are aisles full of bleach and chemicals in full public view in sainsburies. As the H&S professional said upthread, a child would be unlikely to get a lid off or actually drink it. It’s honestly not worth being so hysterically upset about (I mean that in a nice way). She should leave it sounds like an awful place to work!!

However your niece does need to use her initiative, she's worked there five months, she must know what the chef uses two get the paddle from the oven
Why 'must' she know? The OP says the potwashers are not usually expected to get the pans themselves because the chefs bring them.
And this, and the fact that the supervisor demanded she come to get the pan, then just stared at her rather than direct her, suggests she was being set up to fail in an unusual and unreasonable task.

@JCFJW

She is just turned 18, probably should have stated that as it’s different to being 16.

She’s breaking her heart and I feel really shit for her.

Leaving the cupboard unlocked may not be a sackable offence but I suspect turning 18 and having to be paid minimum wage might be. Leaving the cupboard unlocked makes this easy.

I would leave that job if I were her. I've worked in a few restaurant kitchens and there are good ones and bad ones. Kitchen work is always hard which is why they struggle for staff. She could try waitressing but you need to be reasonably confident. Chamber maiding work in hotels might suit her more as you are working alone or in pairs, its hard and you've got to work fast but its so much less stressful than kitchens! Its basically the same in every room, once the routine is learnt its easy. and the hours are better Shop work in a small shop or if she wants to stay in catering try a cafe or coffee shop instead

Restaurants are absolutely desperate for staff to do this type of job. Your relative should start looking elsewhere. If it means putting off her plans to work abroad by a few months, does it really matter?

It was a stupid mistake but she’s absolutely breaking her heart and has been crying about it. The guilty of potentially killing somebody

Well, tell her to stop that for a start. I've made much, much worse mistakes in my career, including forgetting to lock an entirely health centre - full of controlled drugs and patient sensitive material. A colleague made a potentially life-threatening medication error half an hour before being interviewed internally for a more senior role, and missed the interview because he was sorting it out. (He got the job. We value honesty and learning from errors because we recognise that humans make them.)

Mistakes happen.

I doubt there's anyone here who hasn't done something eye-wateringly stupid at least once in their career.

Yes, she's right to own it, apologise, and not beat it up but, at the end of the day, she made a mistake.

In any good workplace it would be treated as a system failure to learn from. If it it that critical that the door remains locked, fit a yale lock on it, so it can't be left unlocked.

I agree she needs to go into the meeting ready to apologise and learn from the mistake. But that's all it is - a mistake. Harm might have been done, but it wasn't.

She should leave, bigger picture.

But also acknowledge the seriousness, the potential harm, and offer solutions to prevent it happening again – better training, a sign. That way in future interviews she’s got a good “have you ever made a mistake at work?” story in answer to the question, by showing how she rectified it and improved procedure.