Is this a sackable offence?

[JCFJW]

Not me, asking on behalf of a teenage relative who is in a state after being told she may get suspended/sacked and she’s worried about it affecting her plans of working in hospitality abroad.

Potwash in a busy family restaurant. The training on chemical handling is a 5 minute online course. She has been there 5 months. Today she went to get detergent from the chemical cupboard. Key is kept in potwash area, chemical cupboard is downstairs next to the toilets so not locked in a staff only area. She forgot to lock the door after being in there and returned the key to its usual spot. It wasn’t noticed the whole night. Supervisor noticed it during closing and was fuming, and is going to arrange a disciplinary meeting. She told my relative “You could have killed a child if they had gone in and drank the chemicals.” The chemicals all have tight seals on.

This supervisor has bullied my relative and other potwash staff before before, making up problems. My relative was in the wrong but because of the supervisor’s previous behaviour I’m not sure how rational her reaction was and whether relative should expect punishment. Thoughts?

The ‘tone’ would have been “an unfortunate accident, thankfully nothing serious happened but let’s work together to make sure it doesn’t happen again”

She should put it down to experience and move on. It’s not the end of the world. Yes there is a possibility that the worst case scenario could have happened- but it didn’t (and it would have had to have been seriously bad luck for it to happen).

At the end of the day, she is only 18 and we all learn from our mistakes. She shouldn’t get so upset over it. Her boss doesn’t sound like a particularly nice person and is obviously looking for excuses to have a go at her.

Life is too short. Put it down to experience and move on.

Hope she's ok.
I've done wayyy worse things than that at work. So have my colleagues. Hell, we once locked someone in the premise over night! And noone got sacked.
This will be forgotten soon enough. It's just one of those things. Good on her for working and learning.

So presumably if a child who was small enough to go into a private room and manage to get the top off of the chemical would be supervised by a parent? It was an innocent mistake and by no means a sackable offence. If it is any consolation the hospitality industry are looking for lots of people just now so she could probably get another job easily. The supervisor sounds like a witch. No son pot washed and was bullied and belittled by the chefs, it's a terrible job and I feel really sorry for your Niece but I would tell her not to worry.

Honestly, your relative should leave this job. The supervisor is a nasty piece of work by all accounts and training is sparse.
She made a mistake and instead of being supported, she is feeling threatened and under attack.
The hospitality industry is desperate for workers so she should resign, forget she’s ever worked there and look for something else.
She’s only been there for 5 months! Don’t use the employer as a reference or include the job on her CV.

@Stickystick

I think you are overthinking this. There is a massive labour shortage in hospitality at the moment - she could quit and get a job somewhere else in a heartbeat. No need to tell new employer about her previous bad experience - just position herself as keen, hard working, reliable, willing to learn.

I agree. She is young and made a mistake, it happens. Yes, the consequences taken to the worst case could be awful but it sounds like she is feeling intimidated and in that environment is likely to make more mistakes. There are so many jobs at the moment that she’d be better off quitting and picking something else up ASAP. It doesn’t sound like she will get much of a reference from the supervisor anyway.

My DD had a couple of dodgy jobs in pubs from 16-18. There is a certain type of “manager” who gets off on picking on youngsters and treating them with zero respect. They seem to especially enjoy taking down the youngsters who are destined for greater things than the supervisor/manager types who are big fish in tiny ponds. So many youngsters I know have been treated very poorly and it’s a bit of a shock to them. I bet it is frustrating trying to manage young/temporary/casual staff and I’m sure it’s a nightmare for that industry at the moment but mistakes like that are less likely to happen where people feel confident and openness is the policy.

I don’t know how long she’s worked there but if it’s less than two years debating whether it’s sackable or not is a bit academic - unfair dismissal rights need two years continuous service so if they’re determined to dismiss her, they’ll do so.
L

I used to work with chemicals (degreaser, that sort of thing) and we were told that not locking the cabinet was a sackable offence

In these sort of low-paid, low-skilled jobs, with managers who are only a pound or two off minimum wage themselves, they will literally hire and fire at will. Your niece would probably do herself a favour if she found another job.

I think given the staff shortage in hospitality at the moment, it is unlikely she will be sacked

OP not sure what agencies are offering pot washing jobs in Spain, and if they are legal after Brexit. Visa requirements aren't really allowing for cheap labour to come to Europe from UK now. If she's planning on working during a holiday visa she's going to find herself in more trouble again soon. 😳
(Completely misses the thread)

I agree with comments a lot of others have made.
Your niece did make a serious mistake.
The manager sounds like he is on a power trip
I think she should learn from this, leave and omit this employment from future applications. I've come across these managers before and once again they don't like your becomes working life awful.

Omit from cv and move on. She’s learnt her lesson. Waitress jobs are so easy to come by at the moment! I’m crying out for waiting staff in my work place

I'm quite a safety minded person, and was notoriously strict about it when was a boss, but I don't think this ought to have been a disciplinary offence for the first time at all.
Firstly, the cupboard is in a silly place.
Secondly, the chemicals ought to have been in safe, child-proof containers anyway, so the risk should have been zero.
Thirdly, any dangerous chemicals should be kept on shelves too high for a child to reach as a matter of routine even within a cupboard, if children have unsupervised access to the room the cupboard is in- if not, a child passing by when someone was legitimately taking something out of the cupboard could grab a bottle of anything.
Fourthly, and most importantly- if such a cupboard has to go in that undesirable position, it ought to be self-locking.
So four things there- all of which are the employer's responsibility. All of which are to my mind worse than one person forgetting once to lock the cupboard. No system ought to be so badly designed that just one person forgetting to do one thing could be so unsafe. People forget, even the most careful people, and no system should depend solely on nobody every forgetting something.
Had I been the boss, I would have simply told her, reminded her to lock it next time, and let it go at that. She's clearly conscientious and will beat herself up quite enough without anything further. But I'd never be that boss, because I would never let those four things above happen in the first place.

@Boulshired

If it takes an employee to forget to lock the cupboard and it being an extreme risk for children then the risk assessment is not thorough enough. It would be clear the cupboard is a risk and a lock of this type is not suitable for the location. Had something happened it would have been the responsibility of the business owners. It is obvious that this is still a poor solution for storing hazardous materials.

^ absolutely this.

Op it won't impacted her chances of working abroad. She doesn't need to "declare" that she's been disciplined or sacked.
She's 18 she didn't even need to say she's worked before.

GrandmaSharkdodo WHATTTT are you for real??

Tell her not to get too upset by this....I was sacked as an 18yr old from a YTS scheme for those old enough to remember those :-) ...At the time I was distraught and was made to feel like it was the end of the world by an HR bitch when in reality it was no big deal. It hasn't caused me any issues, it is relevant to that moment in time and nothing more.
I'm confident your niece will have a lovely new job by the end of next week and chalk this up as a thread in the grand tapestry of life xx

It's a foreseeable risk that someone will forget to lock the door. Procedures fail because of human error... They need a better safe system of work...engineer it out.. Higher up the hierarchy of control.. For example.. Better location 'higher up/further away from general public) or a yale lock that automatically locks when closed would be easy solution...

It's a lapse.. At worst verbal warning... And I say this with far too many years coshh experience

BlueMongoose Absolutely right, no duty of care, I wonder what the training consisted of and was the information embedded?

Where does your niece live? I am in London and restaurant staff are in such short supply here since Brexit that they will hire anyone. Tell her to bin it off, I bet she'll get another job within a week.

@Unmerited

I might be under thinking this but this is a hard work, minimum wage job with a shitty supervisor. While your niece made a mistake, she clearly actually does give a shit and wants to do well - in the hard work, minimum wage job with a shitty supervisor. She should resign and find a job where they don’t treat her badly - at a time when the hospitality industry is crying out for good staff. I bet she’d make a lot less mistakes in that environment too.

Honestly, some times you need to stick with something and others you need to say bollocks to it. I think it’s clear which one this is. The supervisor can wash a few pots.

This. Your niece made a mistake and knows it, but honestly Why stay and be bullied?

She needs to get a new job - which she will do easily - and not risk being dismissed.

Honestly the best thing she can do is hand her notice in, she’ll walk into another hospitality job in this climate, and the current place may or may not give her a reference but with the hospitality crisis it possibly won’t even matter.

I want to know the outcome.

@ImUninsultable

For starters, if she goes in there minimising like you are here then she is sacked.

Doesnt matter if the cleaning products all have lids. Doesnt matter if you have decided the key is easily accessible. No toddler is going to go and get the key, then go and unlock the door and then drink the chemicals. They might have got their hands on something because the door was unlocked, but they wouldnt have if they had to gi and get the key first.

She cannot do in there making any excuses or "but this" like you are right now.

She needs to accept responsibility, accept what the consequences could have been, say honestly that the shock from this has been enough to prevent her inexperience ever letting her do something like this again. She could even suggest they sign the key in and out, with a tick box to confirm they have locked the door on the outside of the chemical cupboard. So they need to tick before walking away. Or something.

This.