AIBU to not want to work?!

[Anonymouseperson]

I’m a mum of two (aged 3 and 5). I worked part time freelance from when my kids were 6 months old. I’ve recently started a new job (35 hours a week) because I thought I should try and get my career back on track and wanted to take the financial pressure off my husband.

I used to be very career driven. I loved my job. I was proud of it. Now, I just don’t give a monkeys. I work so much, my house is a mess and I don’t get to do as much with the kids in the week as I’d like.

This is going to sound really horrible, which is why I’m posting anonymously, but sometimes I just wish I’d married someone richer who would just look after me and the kids without question. Someone who wouldn’t expect me to work, but also if I didn’t work wouldn’t quibble over what I was spending.

Part of my reason for wanting to earn more was my husband’s attitude to money. I am not a spendthrift. I don’t shop really, or do beauty treatments or anything. I bought a £12 lamp once for the front room from wilko and he went ballistic on the front step in front of all the neighbours when he saw the shopping bag, saying I should “make some f-ing money before you go spunking it away all the time!” (He later apologised for that).

My point is, I work because I can’t stand him getting all stressy with me about money, not because I want to.

AIBU: Is it anti feminist to just want to raise my kids and be looked after?!

I feel guilty even writing this because it’s not who I used to be. I was Ms Ambitious - but I’m not anymore. Also I know a lot of people have it worse and I don’t want to be ungrateful. I’m sorry if it comes over that way.

Maybe I’m just a bit depressed?!

@WayneBruce

What's rhe female version of a cockloger?

I couldnt personally, but everyone's different.

Cocklodgers tend not to do the bulk of the childcare and housework. So that not what op is. Good try, but you might want to think before posting next time....

@themuttsnutts

There is a lot of bashing against women who are either staying at home with very young children or working part time.

However, a question that hasn't been asked yet is how many men are offering to go part time or stay at home while the woman furthers her career?

And, are these women, incidentally, coming home and asking their husbands 'what they do all day?' If not, why are they all coming on here and asking other women with toddlers 'what they do all day' or suggesting they are 'sponging off their men?' Come on, you know children are hard work. You have all done maternity leave so, really, we all know better so we should be treating one another better.

Another really obvious point that has only been mentioned once on here is that, in the vast majority of cases, the men earn more than the women and so, for pragmatic reasons, it just doesn't make sense for the man to give up work or reduce his hours. Childcare keeps being cited as a joint cost but, if it costs as much as one person's salary, whether it is shared or not, what is the point?

And why do men earn more? Because sexism is alive and kicking in the 21st century workplace and, judging by the attitudes on here, it is particularly prevalent in women vs other women.

Quite.

Another really obvious point that has only been mentioned once on here is that, in the vast majority of cases, the men earn more than the women and so, for pragmatic reasons, it just doesn't make sense for the man to give up work or reduce his hours. Childcare keeps being cited as a joint cost but, if it costs as much as one person's salary, whether it is shared or not, what is the point?

I thought twenty something women now outearned men & it was taking time off work/becoming a mother that impacted women's earnings?

I do think it's more nuanced then I earn 3k & childcare is 2.5k so what's the point. There is definite benefits to staying in work as opposed to having a gap if that's what someone wants to do. I started a new career after dc1 & childcare was quite a bit more then my salary however now mine are in primary, I'm p/t & can wfh etc & earn pretty well now, so for me it was definitely worth it.

@themuttsnutts

There is a lot of bashing against women who are either staying at home with very young children or working part time.

However, a question that hasn't been asked yet is how many men are offering to go part time or stay at home while the woman furthers her career?

And, are these women, incidentally, coming home and asking their husbands 'what they do all day?' If not, why are they all coming on here and asking other women with toddlers 'what they do all day' or suggesting they are 'sponging off their men?' Come on, you know children are hard work. You have all done maternity leave so, really, we all know better so we should be treating one another better.

Another really obvious point that has only been mentioned once on here is that, in the vast majority of cases, the men earn more than the women and so, for pragmatic reasons, it just doesn't make sense for the man to give up work or reduce his hours. Childcare keeps being cited as a joint cost but, if it costs as much as one person's salary, whether it is shared or not, what is the point?

And why do men earn more? Because sexism is alive and kicking in the 21st century workplace and, judging by the attitudes on here, it is particularly prevalent in women vs other women.

No, men don’t earn just because of sexism. It’s because of age (older = more earnings). Also because men tend to marry lower paid women but not the other way round. Finally we don’t know how many are actually at home because childcare. Many don’t want to put their kids in nursery while the dad would be happy to.

@frazzlesmore

Another really obvious point that has only been mentioned once on here is that, in the vast majority of cases, the men earn more than the women and so, for pragmatic reasons, it just doesn't make sense for the man to give up work or reduce his hours. Childcare keeps being cited as a joint cost but, if it costs as much as one person's salary, whether it is shared or not, what is the point?

I thought twenty something women now outearned men & it was taking time off work/becoming a mother that impacted women's earnings?

I do think it's more nuanced then I earn 3k & childcare is 2.5k so what's the point. There is definite benefits to staying in work as opposed to having a gap if that's what someone wants to do. I started a new career after dc1 & childcare was quite a bit more then my salary however now mine are in primary, I'm p/t & can wfh etc & earn pretty well now, so for me it was definitely worth it.

Yes that’s correct - at more junior levels it’s the same. But also because entry level salaries tend to be fixed for graduate schemes and the like

I don't have a problem with SAHPs & myself had long maternity leaves, but I hate the narrative that mothers only work if they have to. You often see DH is "addicted to his job" or "would never want to stay at home" or "thrives in the work environment" etc & these are all seen as positives for men but the same isn't true for women. Why not?

I look at my friendship group & a lot of those mothers could not work but chose too. They are detectives, surgeons, GPs, teachers, etc. It's good for society that they stay working & they are good at their jobs & enjoy them despite not being men.

Do men tend to marry lower paid women because women are generally lower paid? I definitely think this is the case among my peers.

As for age and earning more, yes, there is a point that pay peaks but then it drops off again quite a bit as you get older - certainly over 50, maybe younger. Ageism is also alive and well in our society and, this time, it doesn't discrimminate against women, in particular.

@themuttsnutts

Do men tend to marry lower paid women because women are generally lower paid? I definitely think this is the case among my peers.

As for age and earning more, yes, there is a point that pay peaks but then it drops off again quite a bit as you get older - certainly over 50, maybe younger. Ageism is also alive and well in our society and, this time, it doesn't discrimminate against women, in particular.

What do you mean by generally lower paid? Even if one half of a couple earns 30K and the others 40K it’s still not a major gap compared to one earning half the salary of the other.

Professional women start out at equal pay and in fact outperform their male counterparts at the start of their career. The equal pay gap appears mid career. There’s no adverse impact on the careers of childless women.

Two programmers marrying doesn’t count as marrying a ‘lower paid’ partner. . A teacher marrying a nursery worker , definitely. Someone on a generic civil service job? Impossible to say.

It’s not that simple.

@themuttsnutts

Do men tend to marry lower paid women because women are generally lower paid? I definitely think this is the case among my peers.

As for age and earning more, yes, there is a point that pay peaks but then it drops off again quite a bit as you get older - certainly over 50, maybe younger. Ageism is also alive and well in our society and, this time, it doesn't discrimminate against women, in particular.

Partly because women are generally lower paid, and partly because, again generally, men don't look for ambition and a good career in a partner the way women do. It just isn't something that tends to matter to them so much when seeking a life partner.

It’s not fair to want only your husband to bear the financial responsibility.

If it’s any consolation, I felt the same when mine were that age. We agreed for me to be sahp for a bit.

I’ve not got my career drive back now that they’re more independent than they were at 3 and 5. Now they drive me to show them a good balance of ambition and family life.
Good luck OP
Also, I can’t believe you’d husband spoke to you like that! In the street!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58786739 This article outlines the gender pay gap. Pay attention, in particular, to this paragraph:

^The median pay gap is not the same as paying women less than men to do the same work, which is illegal in the UK. But using the median pay measure is helpful in understanding the number of women in companies who hold senior roles.

The BBC's analysis found that by sector, the worst gender pay gaps on average are in education (26%), finance and insurance (24%) and construction (23.8%).

^
So, why do women hold fewer senior roles. Interestingly @TractorAndHeadphones, you say childless women are unaffected, from which I am inferring that it all goes wrong for women once they have children.

@themuttsnutts

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58786739 This article outlines the gender pay gap. Pay attention, in particular, to this paragraph:

^The median pay gap is not the same as paying women less than men to do the same work, which is illegal in the UK. But using the median pay measure is helpful in understanding the number of women in companies who hold senior roles.

The BBC's analysis found that by sector, the worst gender pay gaps on average are in education (26%), finance and insurance (24%) and construction (23.8%).

^
So, why do women hold fewer senior roles. Interestingly @TractorAndHeadphones, you say childless women are unaffected, from which I am inferring that it all goes wrong for women once they have children.

Yes. The gender pay gap is the difference in salary between both genders across the board. The equal pay gap is the difference in pay per gender in the same role. Hence the article talks about the median pay and senior roles.

It varies enormously by industry but In mine (tech/finance) many women choose not to come back after maternity leave or go part-time.

In order to get promoted there’s a certain level of flexibility/availability required. Juggling it isn’t easy. The ones who have stayed have supportive spouses, flexible working (e.g leave at 3 for the school run, then log in again at night) and cohesive teams.

While I have seen things like women being sidelined for promotion etc in the last few years it’s not been about gender but the attitude of the manager and team.
Clock watching isn’t necessary in highly skilled jobs - but you need to provide a good service. Well

The best run teams I’ve worked with had a mix of part /full timers, excellent handover so people got answers even if part timer wasn’t working. Goodwill between full and part timers as nobody fel thta the others were clock watchers.

In badly run teams the part timers are sidelined, everyone is left to their own devices. Everyone suffers but part-timers bear the brunt.

There’s no adverse impact on the careers of childless women.

Oh yes there is. THat's a daft thing to claim.

Women generally are paid less for the same work as men ... it's to do with social conditioning and a negative reaction to women when they overcome that conditioning and try to negotiate their salaries up.

@KaycePollard

There’s no adverse impact on the careers of childless women.

Oh yes there is. THat's a daft thing to claim.

Women generally are paid less for the same work as men ... it's to do with social conditioning and a negative reaction to women when they overcome that conditioning and try to negotiate their salaries up.

www.vox.com/2018/2/19/17018380/gender-wage-gap-childcare-penalty

If you’re a woman who thinks the only reason a woman is worthy of a man’s respect is to basically emulate men and work and do everything men do.. you’re a misogynist.

Women have always been the primary caregiver of children and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It baffles me this certain mindset of certain “feminists” who look down upon and hold motherhood and home making with such disdain.

There is nothing wrong with being a woman who loves to homemake. There is nothing with not wanting to have a career. If we are going tk say women have choices then we need to also say that it’s perfectly ok for women to opt out of careers and focus on being at home and home making.

If you’re a woman who thinks the only reason a woman is worthy of a man’s respect is to basically emulate men and work and do everything men do.. you’re a misogynist.

This works only if paid employment is inherently something that men do and somehow not fully compatible with being a woman.

@MarshmallowSwede

If you’re a woman who thinks the only reason a woman is worthy of a man’s respect is to basically emulate men and work and do everything men do.. you’re a misogynist.

Women have always been the primary caregiver of children and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It baffles me this certain mindset of certain “feminists” who look down upon and hold motherhood and home making with such disdain.

There is nothing wrong with being a woman who loves to homemake. There is nothing with not wanting to have a career. If we are going tk say women have choices then we need to also say that it’s perfectly ok for women to opt out of careers and focus on being at home and home making.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be a homemaker - given that your spouse agrees. And that the choice is open to either sex. By talking about 'women always being the primary caregiver' you're implying that it's a woman's right to stay home with her children and have her spouse support her regardless of what he wants. And with a slight extrapolation it's natural for the woman rather than the man to give up her career which is the very thing feminists are fighting against.

Finally - there are A LOT of things wrong with not wanting to have a career. The main thing being a reliance on someone else. How many posts have we seen on MN with SAHM stuck, reliant on a less than ideal husband?

The days of men handing over their salary to wives to manage (like my grandparents) are gone, but the attitude that women should continue to place themselves at his mercy has stayed.

@MarshmallowSwede

If you’re a woman who thinks the only reason a woman is worthy of a man’s respect is to basically emulate men and work and do everything men do.. you’re a misogynist.

Women have always been the primary caregiver of children and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It baffles me this certain mindset of certain “feminists” who look down upon and hold motherhood and home making with such disdain.

There is nothing wrong with being a woman who loves to homemake. There is nothing with not wanting to have a career. If we are going tk say women have choices then we need to also say that it’s perfectly ok for women to opt out of careers and focus on being at home and home making.

The OP wants to ‘not work and not have her DH quibble over what she spends’.

But nice try making it sound like something much more noble.

@MarshmallowSwede

If you’re a woman who thinks the only reason a woman is worthy of a man’s respect is to basically emulate men and work and do everything men do.. you’re a misogynist.

Women have always been the primary caregiver of children and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It baffles me this certain mindset of certain “feminists” who look down upon and hold motherhood and home making with such disdain.

There is nothing wrong with being a woman who loves to homemake. There is nothing with not wanting to have a career. If we are going tk say women have choices then we need to also say that it’s perfectly ok for women to opt out of careers and focus on being at home and home making.

Working, with all that entails, has nothing to do with gaining men's respect. It's a sensible thing to do.

There is no reason why men cannot be the primary caregiver, but generally they don't want to because they recognise that taking time out of the workplace will jeopardise their long term professional and economic interests.

Feminists do not look on motherhood with disdain, but they do emphasise the importance of protecting women's interests. Having a career and maintaining economic independence is generally a good idea.

Not working and being entirely dependent on a man is risky. Just read the relationship board and despair at all the women posting about being trapped in totally shitty and sometimes abusive relationship because they are economically dependent on some man who cannot be arsed to pull his weight in the family...

You have young children and a full time job it’s not surprising you feel overwhelmed and wish that you could just be at home and concentrate on that side of family life. There is so much expectation we can manage it all and if we are single or have an unsupportive partner it can get too much. I would love to be a SAHM and as a single parent who works full time I can find having all the responsibilities overwhelming. I often fantasise about having someone who could take away some of the burdens so I didn’t have to work (I’m sure in the real world I still would lol).

I think your husband was very rude to you .however does he feel the pressure of being the only breadwinner. Many women feel like you ,but being reliant on someone else for money also shifts the power to them.can you look for a pt role elsewhere if not available here. Or condense your week into 4 days maybe

I don’t have a fantastically rich husband. I do however have one that wants to see me and the children happy and never queries finances.
I had a career, then we had an Sen child as well as a big family and we decided I’d be at home a while. It’s a mutually beneficial arrangement in that we aren’t both so tired we want to cry 24/7. I take a massive slack of the home and family life, he works but without the nursery run crazy and can rest at the end of the day. I enjoy my children rather than being too tired to interact a lot of the time.
It’s more than just money, I’m not living off him. He has the family he wants.
We’ve made big compromises on where we can live and what we do money-wise. I have full access to all monies in joint accounts with no comments on spending though. I wouldn’t have given up work otherwise.
Maybe one day we’ll switch roles if it works out that way, he can stay at home. However at the moment it has suited us this was round. I would also though enjoy seeing him happy and I’d love coming home from work to a meal and a slob out!

‘The days of men handing over their salary to wives to manage (like my grandparents) are gone, but the attitude that women should continue to place themselves at his mercy has stayed.’

@TractorAndHeadphones you can’t speak for everyone. I pretty much manage all finances in the joint account. Obviously everyone can see them, but I have a bit more time to do things like insurances, savings etc and organise the outgoings. Mutual trust and a healthy relationship hasn’t died as a concept, people still live happily in traditional set ups because they can and want to. It’s ok to be different, for me that’s the big thing- choice. Women do what they want.

What is un feminist as some posters have already noted, is the condemnation of women for taking a back step career wise. It’s up to individual families how they decide to arrange their family life. Working full time and raising a family is really hard, if people have a choice not to and take it then that’s totally up to them.

I’m a freelancer so it’s not as simple as working/not working but definitely took my career down a few notches after the kids were born. That was a purely economic decision, my husband is in a very inflexible but high earning job, his ability to not have to take the kids into account and take additional responsibility at work has benefited us as a family financially. Had I been in his job he would’ve been the person to take on the majority of the parental responsibility- and he’d have been bloody good at it too.

I’m going to be stepping up work during the next year but have realised just how unfriendly the job market is to people with pre school/primary aged kids. Whilst women are tearing into other women for being ‘Fanny lodgers’ we aren’t actually looking at changing the working culture that makes it hard for all of us. It’d be a far better direction to stick your anger in.