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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to think this uniform policy is wrong

162 replies

rosesinmygarden · 17/10/2021 18:05

My daughter does an extra curricular activity which is linked to scouting/guiding.

The activity involves performing, for which she has to wear a specific uniform.

The uniform specifies exact items which are all boys'/men's clothes. Think men's dress trousers and a men's shirt.

There is no alternative uniform for female members.

The uniform is uncomfortable and fits my daughter badly no matter what size we buy. I've asked several times if she can wear women's versions of each item and have been told that if she does, she will be excluded from performances. They insist the uniform is unisex. It is not. The items are sold by the uniform company as boys/mens items.

AIBU to think this is quite wrong and that the male members would never be expected to wear women's clothes? Let alone be excluded if they refused!

My daughter wants to do the activity and I really don't want to be 'that' parent, but it makes me quite uncomfortable and I'm shocked that the people in charge of the activity think it is acceptable. There is a man in charge overall but his wife is also heavily involved in the running.

OP posts:
Original poster
rosesinmygarden · 17/10/2021 18:23

@TheViewFromTheCheapSeats

How does it not fit? For most uniforms the cut isn’t wildly different for teens. Or is it a feature, such as a high collar, tie or double breasting that she dislikes the feel of?
Imagine wearing a man's dress shirt and a pair of men's suit trousers when you are a curvy size 12. That might help to explain.

The shirt is way too wide in the shoulders and several inches too long in the arm. The trousers are 6-8 inches too large around the waist in order to fit around the hips. Because they are made for men. They are not allowed to have them altered as then they will look 'non uniform'.

OP posts:
AutumnLeafy · 17/10/2021 18:23

That's bad if they've changed it. I can understand saying it has to be all trousers but the top needs to fit. It doesn't look smart otherwise.

AutumnLeafy · 17/10/2021 18:25

Sorry cross posted. I completely understand how it wouldn't fit. And if it used to be the case they could get a female uniform I would write to head office.

TheViewFromTheCheapSeats · 17/10/2021 18:25

I sometimes wear men’s clothing, it’s a genuine question. Shirts are easy, even though I have big boobs. As long as they go round my chest the rest is loose, same for jumpers.
Trousers need belting at times for my hips, but aren’t uncomfortable. It’s all just loose, not too bad if tucked in and belted.
It’s not the coolest style choice, but quite comfortable as it’s baggy.
My teen son is currently wearing teen girl scouting trousers as the pack share around hand me downs. They don’t tend to stick to genders. I guess it’s an hour or two only and baggy in style.
When I was young and worked in Tesco I often worn the men’s uniform shirt as I found the old style shirts had a low v neck and fitted waist, I liked being more covered for some of the twats that came in.

It’s a genuine question, what’s the fit problem, is it resolvable? Is is a style problem? Obviously if it’s a double breasted jacket it may be unwearable

SusannaOwens · 17/10/2021 18:28

I know you said it's not scouts. But my DD goes to sea scouts and there is no different uniform for boys and girls. It's never been an issue? But maybe it depends on what the uniform is confused

DD always wore her own bottoms to Sea Scouts, although we had to buy the ridiculously overpriced shirts about 2 sizes too big to accommodate her boobs, so they weren't an ideal fit.
I think the posters who are claiming not to understand the issue are being disingenuous. Teen girls differ from boys by having a different hip waist ratio and breasts. Boys trousers have to be bought too big, to accommodate hips, then they don't fit elsewhere.

TheViewFromTheCheapSeats · 17/10/2021 18:28

Seen your last post. Personally I’d just subtly dart the waist into the trousers for a big improvement.
It’s madness to insist a uniform can’t fit.
What if they had a child taller than the uniform?
I’d approach it from that angle-sizing, rather than gender arguments.

rrhuth · 17/10/2021 18:29

Go higher than your own group leader.

budgiegirl · 17/10/2021 18:30

I know you said it's not scouts. But my DD goes to sea scouts and there is no different uniform for boys and girls. It's never been an issue?

Yes, there is. Sea Scouts have a choice of shirt or blouse, and they are cut slightly differently.

OP, I agree that it's not good to have a "unisex" uniform that is basically cut for men. Could you get the uniform altered to fit better? (Not that you should have to, but if it helps, it's probably worth doing). Or see if other girls feel the same and approach the leaders again? Are there people above the leaders that you could approach?

WeAreTheHeroes · 17/10/2021 18:30

Is it the group your DD goes to that refuses to allow alterations or is it organisation-wide? There must be something in the uniform policy that you can use to get them to be reasonable. The ridiculous thing is, they won't all look uniform with at least one of them in very ill-fitting clothes.

InTheLabyrinth · 17/10/2021 18:31

YANBU.
I shouted loud and long when they wanted to bring a uniform into certain areas at work. It was going to be a unisex polo, and mens workwear trousers. They eventually admitted that it needed some womans trousers as an option when I actually stood up in a meeting and said I had a 30 inch waist, but would need 38 inch mens trousers and would they pay to adjust them.
So, could you either take them to a seamstress and, if the club provides the uniform, request they pay for the alterations.

WeAreTheHeroes · 17/10/2021 18:31

I'd have the stuff altered and tell them to bog off tbh.

ftw163532 · 17/10/2021 18:31

That's not my experience of wearing clothes cut for men and I've had plenty of conversations over the years with women experiencing similar problems when required to wear trousers and shirts cut for male bodies.

ftw163532 · 17/10/2021 18:34

Damn it, that was meant to be in response to posters saying men's clothes fit them fine.

Clymene · 17/10/2021 18:38

Are some posters honestly trying to say that teenage boys and girls bodies are essentially a similar shape? Confused surely no one is that thick.

OP - is there uniform for women? I mean is it made? I would get that. And if your group leader complains then I would go higher up the food chain

girlmom21 · 17/10/2021 18:41

Even if it's a group that's unisex a universal uniform will fit everyone. The intention isn't for it to be flattering - it's for everyone to dress the same.

Original poster
rosesinmygarden · 17/10/2021 18:42

It isn't a national activity. It is a local off shoot. There isn't a group in each town, county etc. It's a bit niche and a group of kids with a very specific performing skill.

We pay for the uniform ourselves unfortunately and it's not cheap. No alterations allowed.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 17/10/2021 18:46

@girlmom21

Even if it's a group that's unisex a universal uniform will fit everyone. The intention isn't for it to be flattering - it's for everyone to dress the same.
Of course it doesn't fit everyone. Hmm the OP has clearly explained it fits the boys but doesn't fit many of the girls)
Original poster
rosesinmygarden · 17/10/2021 18:49

@Clymene

Are some posters honestly trying to say that teenage boys and girls bodies are essentially a similar shape? Confused surely no one is that thick.

OP - is there uniform for women? I mean is it made? I would get that. And if your group leader complains then I would go higher up the food chain

Yes, there are girl's/women's versions of each item available for sale from scouting UK. She is not allowed to wear them. If she does, she will be excluded from performances.

They would NEVER insist that the boys buy and wear the girls' version of the items.

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 17/10/2021 18:54

Get them altered/tailored

Tell them they haven't been altered when they ask

girlmom21 · 17/10/2021 18:55

@ErrolTheDragon it does fit

LaurieFairyCake · 17/10/2021 18:55

What I would do is complain to the greater organisation above them

It sounds like one rogue mysoginistic arsehole

budgiegirl · 17/10/2021 18:56

*Yes, there are girl's/women's versions of each item available for sale from scouting UK. She is not allowed to wear them. If she does, she will be excluded from performances.

They would NEVER insist that the boys buy and wear the girls' version of the items*

That's terrible. As they must be affiliated with the Scouts, then I would definitely take this higher - contact Scout HQ if need be. Scouts/Guides are all about inclusion, and if your daughter is going to be excluded because the leaders are insisting she wears the boys version of the uniform, then that is surely going against the inclusion policy.

Original poster
rosesinmygarden · 17/10/2021 18:56

This is the shirt. Girl's version (which is banned) is right next to it.

She's not an air or sea scout btw. They just use the same uniform.

AIBU to think this uniform policy is wrong
OP posts:
rrhuth · 17/10/2021 18:57

@rosesinmygarden

It isn't a national activity. It is a local off shoot. There isn't a group in each town, county etc. It's a bit niche and a group of kids with a very specific performing skill.

We pay for the uniform ourselves unfortunately and it's not cheap. No alterations allowed.

It sounds really awful actually.

Can your DD not find a different group without the weird leader?

NotSoNewAndShiny · 17/10/2021 18:57

What about the wife? You said she also runs this group with him - does she also prefer uniform over fit/comfort? Have you talked to/written to her? Perhaps they could have a conversation about it and change the rules a bit to suit some of the children. It would still be uniform, just better fit for them.

If there's nothing else you can do and no one else to report to, then it's either continue or stop attending, unfortunately.

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