Prof Stock & disgraceful, disrespectful, disingenuous and disillusioned students!!

[CityMumma78]

I’m so angry that a handful of students and fanatical activists are deliberately silencing an academic over her very justified views on biology. Professor Stock, by her title alone, is an incredibly well read academic who has studied and researched her topic but because this doesn’t align with a small majority she could lose her job and has been advised to seek protection and put up CCTV. WTF

What she has written-
Womanhood and manhood reflect biological sex, not gender or gender identity;
The claim 'transwomen are women' is a fiction, not literally true
Sexual orientation (being gay, being lesbian) is determined by same-sex attraction, not attraction to gender identity
Spaces where women undress and sleep should remain genuinely single-sex, in order to protect them;
Children with gender identity disorders should not be given puberty blockers as minors.

I personally agree with all these points! You CANNOT change chromosomes, you CANNOT change your sex organs and reproductive systems, it doesn’t matter what you identify as.
Why is she being silenced and threatened and why isn’t more being done by the university’s, police and government???

I spent my whole childhood watching my mum being beaten up and tortured by my dad and I passionately believe in safe spaces for women… toilets, changing facilities, refuges etc. Recently on MN for example a lady commented on finding a man using the Ladies toilets with the door open when the Gents toilets were operational, this behaviour is indefensible, he knew what he was doing and got a kick out of it! What is happening in this country that a woman can’t feel safe to use a public toilet!

I feel scared for women and I am hugely concerned about people being silenced in favour of this indoctrination!

Do others feel as strongly as I do??

YABU - the students are right
YANBU - Professor Stock is right

So in the 7 hours since starting this thread we have had over 700 votes at 97% in favour of Professor Stock and 125 comments that are overwhelmingly positive and also on the side of Professor Stock!
Thank you all so much for voting and sharing your views and personal experiences. I have a renewed faith in my sisterhood and believe that together we are a force to be reckoned with and cannot be silenced.
Hopefully this thread will remain open and active for a while longer!
Thank you all again and best wishes.

I stand with Professor Stock

YADNBU

Some academics are actually the big driving forces behind identity politics, no platforming, and no debate

Thanks for your account Mycircus. You would think that some academics may be behind all this, otherwise it makes no sense that students alone can wield so much power

I wonder if it's worse for some degrees (e.g. social studies may be more problematic than engineering for instance)

YANBU, OP.

I do object to my taxes being used in this way

Same.

I hope your mum is ok CityMumma78

If any of you are taking DC on open days, please make a point of asking how the department and university supports open debate, and if there have been instances of academics being harassed or no platformed, ask how this was allowed to happen.

Yes please ask this at every university Open Day you attend. Ask it in the big public information lectures as well as the meet and greet with staff and current students opportunities.

That's the thing I don't get. Even otherwise intelligent friends of mine have seemingly drunk the kool-aid...
I think it is only until it does not touch them directly. I was one of them, and remember the epiphany moment very clearly

I'm really interested to hear what your epiphany moment was @forinborin. Would you mind sharing it?

I wonder if it's worse for some degrees (e.g. social studies may be more problematic than engineering for instance)

I'm wondering that too @mustlovegin. Certainly, when I was at uni (as a mature student) a couple of years ago I encountered none of this. My course was a hard science, evidence-based, full of critical analysis, with no room for navel gazing.

YANBU at all. Prof Stock is clearly an extremely intelligent woman who is writing papers on her topic of interest. I actually agree with a lot of what she writes.

Spaces for women e.g. toilets/changing rooms, should be protected imo.

Even if I didn't agree with anything she said, she still has the right to express her views (as do we all). The students protesting don't have to agree with her but they need to appreciate that people can have different views and that is allowed.

To me, they are making themselves look ridiculous. They can't accept that someone has a different view

The university need to pull their finger out and do something about it.

A lot of people still think that this applies only to transpeople, especially transwomen, who have had hormones and full surgery. Or at the very least, people who fit the old school definition of trans: people who feel out of sync with the sex of their body and actually desire to inhabit the opposite one.

They don't realise that the definition has now changed to include people who are 100% comfortable with the sex of their body and do not intend to make any changes at all, but want to be treated in all spheres as if they were the opposite sex, because they "feel" like a man or woman. That being a man or woman is simply an innate sense and not a physical reality that sometimes matters and can't be identified out of.

In other words, female spaces to be open entirely to any intact male who simply says he feels like a woman.

People's feelings tend to change once they realise that trans doesn't mean what it used to mean, and it is now a bit more complicated than simply supporting someone in how they wish to present and be addressed.

I'm really interested to hear what your epiphany moment was@forinborin. Would you mind sharing it?
It is very simple and even stupid to an extent - when we had a parent meeting at the ("girly") activity one of my children attends, someone external came to explain about gender dysphoria and how symptoms can be observed as early as the age of three. And when prompted about symptoms the presenter mentioned, amongst everything else, interest in robots (which was clearly considered not appropriate for girls).
Incidentally, I was considering doing an advanced postgrad course in robotics at that time, so it went down very well. Had my "wait, WHAT" moment then.

Was anyone visiting the Open Day with a view to studying Biology?

There seems to be a resounding silence on the matter of changing sex from that Department. I would want to know their view on how scientific evidence and facts are presented while colleagues are witch hunted….

I have ordered the book to show my solidarity, thank you for this thread.

I bought a copy of her book at the weekend. I said very loudly, do you have a copy of Kathleen Stock’s book Material Girls?
Cue much scurrying off to the stockroom 😫
I said - why isn’t the book out on display?
Turns out it had been but a customer had just come in and bought THREE copies!

I was really pleased, and I did enjoy using a loud voice. Have started reading and will pass it on to my DDs. Also going to ask school library to stock it.

And I despair DESPAIR at the behaviour of some of those students at Sussex University.

Don’t they learn anything about critical thinking?

No chance on this earth will I be encouraging my DCs to go there when the time comes.

There is definitely a need for some kind of list of universities where students are ALLOWED to discuss openly these issues.

@FrancescaContini

No chance on this earth will I be encouraging my DCs to go there when the time comes.

There is definitely a need for some kind of list of universities where students are ALLOWED to discuss openly these issues.

I think you'll find the list is very short. Even if discussion is 'allowed' the backlash for speaking up for young people is massive.

It feels as if Trump-style, capitol storming supporters of perpetual ignorance have taken over the academy. 'Lock her up!'.

Their parents must be so proud. Paying £x a year (in many cases) so their beloved darlings can practice entry-level terrorism.

I genuinely wonder at the intellectual calibre of some university students.

@mustlovegin

I am truly scared for what the future holds for women

And it's not only women who may be at risk. Who knows what lunacy 'they' will come up with next? This has been going on for too long now

And not putting up with it involves what, exactly? Banning protest one assumes. So you only support free speech that you agree with. Just like OP and all the shouty transphobes with their scaremongering bs on this thread.

Not one person on this thread is saying that people should not have the right to free speech. God knows the TRAs have it!

What we object to is the violence, the death threats and the masks. It is not scaremongering to point out that a woman has been advised by the police to have security because there is a valid threat to her life!

There is nothing transphobic about asking for two sides of a debate to be freely heard.

Nice try though at reversal and gaslighting.

Eh???!?!?! Shouty transphobes?

Just like OP and all the shouty transphobes with their scaremongering bs on this thread.

Yeah. Crack on! By shouty I take it you are referring to the trans activists drowning out women victims of male violence being read out at a feminist conference? And feminists facing signs and pavement drawings referring to rape acts….

Glad that you popped by to point that out.

@NettleTea I have an autism diagnosis and I feel largely completely pushed out of any online ailutistic communities be ause of this capture by those heavily pushing identity politics and yes a lot of self ID going on as well.
Pity as I'd have liked to be able to participate in a community.

Yeah....scaremongering bs. There's no chilling effect or restriction of freedom of speech or stifling of academic debate going on in Universities at all.

Oh, wait.....
www.gcacademianetwork.org

And not putting up with it involves what, exactly?Banning protest one assumes.
So you only support free speech that you agree with. Just like OP and all the shouty transphobes with their scaremongering bs on this thread.

I’d support all those protesting students in their right to free speech and peaceful protest if a) they were willing to show their faces, thereby having the courage of their convictions, and b) they had a reasoned argument about exactly how what Prof Stock has said is transphobic or puts them at risk or makes them unsafe.

Because from an outsider’s POV the female professor seems to be the individual most at risk of harm here.