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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Prof Stock & disgraceful, disrespectful, disingenuous and disillusioned students!!

171 replies

CityMumma78 · 17/10/2021 08:19

I’m so angry that a handful of students and fanatical activists are deliberately silencing an academic over her very justified views on biology. Professor Stock, by her title alone, is an incredibly well read academic who has studied and researched her topic but because this doesn’t align with a small majority she could lose her job and has been advised to seek protection and put up CCTV. WTF Angry

What she has written-
Womanhood and manhood reflect biological sex, not gender or gender identity;
The claim 'transwomen are women' is a fiction, not literally true
Sexual orientation (being gay, being lesbian) is determined by same-sex attraction, not attraction to gender identity
Spaces where women undress and sleep should remain genuinely single-sex, in order to protect them;
Children with gender identity disorders should not be given puberty blockers as minors.

I personally agree with all these points! You CANNOT change chromosomes, you CANNOT change your sex organs and reproductive systems, it doesn’t matter what you identify as.
Why is she being silenced and threatened and why isn’t more being done by the university’s, police and government???

I spent my whole childhood watching my mum being beaten up and tortured by my dad and I passionately believe in safe spaces for women… toilets, changing facilities, refuges etc. Recently on MN for example a lady commented on finding a man using the Ladies toilets with the door open when the Gents toilets were operational, this behaviour is indefensible, he knew what he was doing and got a kick out of it! What is happening in this country that a woman can’t feel safe to use a public toilet!

I feel scared for women and I am hugely concerned about people being silenced in favour of this indoctrination!

Do others feel as strongly as I do??

YABU - the students are right
YANBU - Professor Stock is right

OP posts:
Waitwhat23 · 17/10/2021 11:05

My Kindle has just popped up a message saying Material Girls is currently trending - I suspect more and more people are having a look as to what the fuss is all about and will be thinking 'this isn't transphobic, what on earth is going on?'

CandidaAlbicans2 · 17/10/2021 11:12

the lack of critical thinking terrifies me

Me too @ronkey, as does the inability of these youngsters to debate. I suspect social media echo chambers are the main cause of this.

ronkey · 17/10/2021 11:13

The idea that the debate alone makes you unsafe is mind blowing.

FVFrog · 17/10/2021 11:16

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g spot on

dementedma · 17/10/2021 11:20

I stand with Professor Stock

Fleek · 17/10/2021 11:22

This sickens me. It really needs stamping out. People have a right to protest and argue their point but turning up in balaclavas and intimidating someone like this - what little shits.

I do strongly believe that most students aren't like this, however, and don't want to be caught up in this behaviour. Don't get me wrong, it's hugely problematic that any are and I'd be terrified to be on the receiving end of this. I also think this minority are shaping university culture more widely and lots of academics are now also hostile to people holding gc beliefs. It's a very serious issue. I just think it's easy to think it's all young people behaving in this way and it's not true. I was at university as a mature student two years ago and overheard young women talking about how they hated the all gender loos. I saw lots of students steer clear of the trans debate entirely. They were generally working hard at their studies to build themselves a good future at a time when there is a lot of competition.

I think it's time for universities to get really tough on this issue, with that said. Lecturers must not be bullied, freedom of speech is to be supported above all else. There is absolutely no room for aggressive behaviour. There is no way I would be happy with any young family member going to Sussex at this point in time.

KimWexlersPonyTail · 17/10/2021 11:24

Download last Mondays University Challenge - hilarious. Sussex Uni is becoming a joke.

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 17/10/2021 11:24

Seeing that vote and the support for free speech and critical thinking is very reassuring. What Prof Stock is being put through is just ridiculous, I can't understand why the police aren't doing more.

justbackfrombangkok · 17/10/2021 11:28

The police are firmly on the side of the people attacking KS.

AlfonsoTheDinosaur · 17/10/2021 11:28

These protests about Professor Stock making students feel "intellectually uncomfortable" (or whatever their whine is), the protest during Open Day and Sussex's poor score on UC are all own goals for students.

If I were an employer and I had applicants from Sussex University, I most likely pass over their applications for those from more sensible universities as I would see those applicants as being total nightmares to work with.

GCAcademic · 17/10/2021 11:29

@KimWexlersPonyTail

Download last Mondays University Challenge - hilarious. Sussex Uni is becoming a joke.
It's a good example of what happens to a university when its student demographic is heavily skewed towards the kind of people who think that the point of being at university is to instruct your tutors in what to think.
AlfonsoTheDinosaur · 17/10/2021 11:29

Clarification: applicants from Sussex as being total nightmares; not the students from more sensible unis.

Mycircusyourmonkeys · 17/10/2021 11:32

I've felt the need to name change to post this as I'm concerned about repercussions.
(I'm also one of the not so academically bright who maybe shouldn't really be at uni, but also not totally stupid)

IME a combination of the business wallahs and the internecine wars between some academics has a lot to with why all sorts is ongoing and why it's being 'allowed.' This stuff doesn't only come from the students, but we're not allowed to say that!

Some academics are actually the big driving forces behind identity politics, no platforming, and no debate.

It isn't only around gender, and it's being shoved at students as part of marked work, and in courses were you wouldn't automatically expect it.
Lectures and coursework force students to publicly share their racial, cultural, and religious backgrounds (including those who don't wish to) and then self identify as x,y,z. Students are expected to 'reflect' on this stuff and submit work around their conclusions.

It's really difficult to navigate, especially those from difficult situations who want to keep things private, and don't wish to identify as 'victims,' (currently considered desirable) and/or come from the currently 'wrong cultures' or countries. (or those that aren't officially wrong, but in reality they face huge judgement over being born into.)

There is so much about 'othering' yet so much racism being promoted hiding within supporting the ('correct') marginalized groups, as well as the gender politics, ageism, and ableism going on.

Yet at the same time feelings are everything, and the most innocuous things can be 'overwhelming' or 'anxiety provoking' for anyone at any time, including lecturers, so everyone has to tread really carefully all the time.

Getting which lecturers is Ze, vs Xe vs They right, is a constant worry, never mind fellow students.

Remembering who identifies as being 'of color' when appearance isn't an indicator, seems to be problematic for the young.
Complimenting someone's work or intelligence can lead to them having a panic attack as others may judge them negatively for it.
Older students can find themselves accused of thinking the 'wrong' things, based purely on their age, not anything said. (forgivable in very young students, but painful to hear it from middle aged academics.)
The majority middle class like to see themselves as working class, so there's little room for genuine working class views.
Some lecturers announce that they would not engage with anyone who holds contrary views to the 'right' ones.

(Security are outsourced, and not allowed feelings btw, and facilities staff wisely keep their mouths shut.)

If someone transgresses on one thing, then leaping to shield the transgression with their own issues (real or acquired) is the only way to survive for many, so 'issues' become 'get out of jail' cards.

Young students with time and room for passionate causes are quickly attracted to being on the 'right side ' of history, and decide the social order under approval and with no knowledge of previous history or the damage they're doing to others or to their own futures. In their attempts to be 'allies' of one group, they trample the rights of other groups with no sense of irony at all.

In the middle of it all is the occasional predator having a field day while the focus is elsewhere, as obviously such things can't be happening in such an environment.

We study in interesting times. (some of us fear that it may be indicative of something worse to come.)

CreepingDeath · 17/10/2021 11:34

sst1234

It’s worse than that. It’s a sinister left wing agenda to re write history and biology. They’ll try Math next and tell us 2+2 is not 4 and if you think it is, you should check your privilege.

Yes exactly, and they have also infiltrated trusted institutions. So for example Stonewall was a well respected organisation for many years, having done so much good for gay and lesbian people. They have now gone down the rabbit hole completely, but many people still see the name 'Stonewall' and think they can be trusted.

Similarly in the US, the ACLU, which is the American Civil Liberties Union is saying that biological sex being binary is a myth Hmm. This is patently untrue and unscientific, but they are a respected institution so many people will just accept that.

Medical institutions, public bodies and organisations are all lining up to throw away their credibility by backing actual lies and misrepresenting the law.

It's fascinating and horrifying at the same time.

lifeturnsonadime · 17/10/2021 11:36

Yes 97% in support of Professor Stock, and so far 100% of the comments.

I think this is really sad but it is not confined to Sussex University as demonstrated in the Sunday Times article linked earlier in this thread.

As a Sussex Alumni the whole issue really saddens me, Sussex has always been a tolerant university, the irony of those purportedly seeking tolerance being intolerant to women who hold a different view to them is startling.

The whole issue is so very deeply misogynistic. Lord Robert Winston spoke about receiving hate mail every time he states that a persons sex is unchangeable but it is women who speak out on this issue that are hounded out of their jobs. The end game is to end women's rights in the name of transgenderism. The women who will suffer the most are the most vulnerable women in society. It's appalling.

CreepingDeath · 17/10/2021 11:38

Jesus Mycircusyourmonkeys, that sounds exhausting. So much naval gazing and looking for problems. All it will lead to is resentment and more divisions.

Who is benefitting from all this? I do wonder if some in academia see themselves as thought leaders, who have a following (the students) and want to exert some influence. Weird.

CreepingDeath · 17/10/2021 11:38

*navel

Mycircusyourmonkeys · 17/10/2021 11:39

Fleek totally agree with your post, and a couple of years ago most students tried to just avoid much of it altogether, now many often don't have the choice.

Eyesofdisarray · 17/10/2021 11:42

It's absolutely vile. I can't believe the attitude of these students. Trans demand activists must be laughing up their sleeves.
Ms Jones needs challenging on their views too.
It's like a very scary, dystopian novel

👍Prof Stock and Prof Phoenix and Prof Freedman
And any others I've omitted

GCAcademic · 17/10/2021 11:46

Who is benefitting from all this? I do wonder if some in academia see themselves as thought leaders, who have a following (the students) and want to exert some influence. Weird.

Yes, definitely. There are loads of academics like this who seem to spend most of their lives on Twitter issuing pronouncements to their followers (the term "followers" is apt here, as it implies a cult).

Mycircusyourmonkeys · 17/10/2021 11:51

CreepingDeath It is exhausting and I believe it has a lot to do with the major anxiety issues in so many of our students.

Who is profiting is definitely the right question!

I don't know the fuller answer but the university wellbeing industries definitely are, and some academics are, both financially, and personally.
The business end of universities and some individual academics (usually the dodgier ones) benefit in having a mainly nervous easily controllable student body... and every three years whatever they didn't want to deal with, generally moves on.

This is just a gut feeling: (apart from the last one!) being at the forefront of any emerging avant-garde is a good place to be if you write, publish, get research grants, or are a controlling sociopath.

bumblingbovine49 · 17/10/2021 11:59

They have said “trans students feel intellectually threatened” by professor stock

It is not the job of a university to make you feel intellectually safe, in fact the complete opposite is true. A core reason to go to university is to have your views challenged and discussed. Unfortunately the new ' consumer' culture has meant this is often no longer true. Students are paying so they want to control what they 'buy'

forinborin · 17/10/2021 12:00

[quote Clymene]They are liars

'Ms Jones told Politics Live on Wednesday: 'Professor Stock at Sussex, who has signed Women's declaration of sex-based rights which wants to eliminate trans people in law'

'Ms Jones' is the university students union trans rep. The women's declaration on sex based rights says nothing of the sort.

The bbc had to apologise

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10095721/BBC-apologises-student-union-rep-says-professor-supports-elimination-trans-people-law.html[/quote]
I really like a suggestion that people have to be cancelled and banned from lecturing because other people feel "intellectually threatened" by them. It is a direct quote from the oppressed group.

FlowerArranger · 17/10/2021 12:08

The end game is to end women's rights in the name of transgenderism

But why are so many woman apparently complicit in the destruction of their hard fought for rights?

That's the thing I don't get. Even otherwise intelligent friends of mine have seemingly drunk the kool-aid...

GCAcademic · 17/10/2021 12:12

@FlowerArranger

The end game is to end women's rights in the name of transgenderism

But why are so many woman apparently complicit in the destruction of their hard fought for rights?

That's the thing I don't get. Even otherwise intelligent friends of mine have seemingly drunk the kool-aid...

There are significant numbers of people who are terrified of appearing not to be (what they are told is) progressive. There is a real social stigma around this in certain groups. As a result of this, they outsource their thinking to their tribe, and lap up with credulity what they are told.

The dangerous thing is that what they have been told is "progressive" is actually deeply regressive. What is the next regressive thing that progressives will be led to support?

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