Prof Stock & disgraceful, disrespectful, disingenuous and disillusioned students!!

[CityMumma78]

I’m so angry that a handful of students and fanatical activists are deliberately silencing an academic over her very justified views on biology. Professor Stock, by her title alone, is an incredibly well read academic who has studied and researched her topic but because this doesn’t align with a small majority she could lose her job and has been advised to seek protection and put up CCTV. WTF

What she has written-
Womanhood and manhood reflect biological sex, not gender or gender identity;
The claim 'transwomen are women' is a fiction, not literally true
Sexual orientation (being gay, being lesbian) is determined by same-sex attraction, not attraction to gender identity
Spaces where women undress and sleep should remain genuinely single-sex, in order to protect them;
Children with gender identity disorders should not be given puberty blockers as minors.

I personally agree with all these points! You CANNOT change chromosomes, you CANNOT change your sex organs and reproductive systems, it doesn’t matter what you identify as.
Why is she being silenced and threatened and why isn’t more being done by the university’s, police and government???

I spent my whole childhood watching my mum being beaten up and tortured by my dad and I passionately believe in safe spaces for women… toilets, changing facilities, refuges etc. Recently on MN for example a lady commented on finding a man using the Ladies toilets with the door open when the Gents toilets were operational, this behaviour is indefensible, he knew what he was doing and got a kick out of it! What is happening in this country that a woman can’t feel safe to use a public toilet!

I feel scared for women and I am hugely concerned about people being silenced in favour of this indoctrination!

Do others feel as strongly as I do??

YABU - the students are right
YANBU - Professor Stock is right

The end game is to end women's rights in the name of transgenderism

Disabled rights and needs apparently have to go too. There isn't enough money to provide facilities for both and transgenderism is popular and disabled needs aren't.

That's the thing I don't get. Even otherwise intelligent friends of mine have seemingly drunk the kool-aid...
I think it is only until it does not touch them directly. I was one of them, and remember the epiphany moment very clearly.

Because they don't have the ability to think critically and want to be seen as "inclusive".

@Mycircusyourmonkeys

The end game is to end women's rights in the name of transgenderism

Disabled rights and needs apparently have to go too. There isn't enough money to provide facilities for both and transgenderism is popular and disabled needs aren't.

Yep. I have autism and am forced to lie, which causes me distress, so my disability is less important than someone's feelings.

Yep. I have autism and am forced to lie, which causes me distress, so my disability is less important than someone's feelings.

there are a whole swathe of people identifying as autistic. Its not a great time for those of us who actually are, because as usual the loudest and most shouty will take over and drive the agenda to their needs, and like transexuals got pushed out of transgenderism, I suspect those who are not quite the right 'look' for the autisticafarians will be sidelined and told to shut up

I assure you that I do not "identify" as autistic. I was assessed and diagnosed at the Autism Research Centre at Cambridge University.

(Sorry if my post sounded snotty; it was not meant to but the whole self-assessment schtick gives me the rage.)

I noticed that every single one of the 1-star reviews on Amazon.co.uk for Prof. Stock's Material Girls isn't a 'Verified Purchase'. Not one.

So did every single one of the reviewers not buy off Amazon, but chose to review there rather than say, Goodreads, or is it just possible, that not a single one of the 1-star reviewers actually bothered to read Material Girls, either new or second-hand. And consequently they are bigots? What is more likely; not a single 'Verified Purchase' because none of them actually purchased/read it, or every one got their copy elsewhere?

I note that not a single one of the 1-star reviewers was actually able to quote anything transphobic from the book. Not a single sentence, phrase or paragraph. And yet they determine it to be transphobic and its author transphobic. How is that then?

@AlfonsoTheDinosaur why do you have to lie? That is awful that something is making you feel that way.

Quite a few posters have stated as fact 'Professor Stock is transphobic'. Every one I've seen has been asked to share any quotes from the book which are transphobic, just one will do. Not one has offered any evidence so far.

It's particularly cowardly that those people who attack her personally choose to cover their own faces when they demonstrate.

@CreepingDeath
interestingly, I participated in a debate recently for a course I’m doing, and my debate team mates were late teens/ early twenties.
We were discussing debating in general, and controversial topics, and many of them stated that they would be unable to debate in favour something they didn’t agree with.
Even though I said that the whole point of debating is that it’s not about what you really think, but the ability to step outside your own view point and critically analyse a topic from all sides, but they just kept saying that they wouldn’t or couldn’t go against what they believed.

But I kind of agree with those students, on this part at least. Would you debate the positives of white supremacy over black people if told that’s what your role in the debate was to be?

I hope the students and staff who don't support Ms Stock feel very proud of themselves.

[quote GoldChick]@AlfonsoTheDinosaur why do you have to lie? That is awful that something is making you feel that way.[/quote]
Because if I don't, my posts will be deleted by MNHQ and I will eventually be banned. I will also be branded transphobic and a bigot.

@AlfonsoTheDinosaur

I assure you that I do not "identify" as autistic. I was assessed and diagnosed at the Autism Research Centre at Cambridge University.

(Sorry if my post sounded snotty; it was not meant to but the whole self-assessment schtick gives me the rage.)

I assure you that I didnt for one minute doubt your diagnosis. Just a heads up that the identity tribe have infiltrated the autistic cmmunity too, and they certainly hold the same 'identity is everything' views.

Its the question of 'where next' if this isnt stopped now.

Its already happening. And genuine autistic people will be pushed to one side by the narcissists who see their dreadful behaviour as 'autistic' rather than self centred manipulation

[quote SoniaFouler]@CreepingDeath
interestingly, I participated in a debate recently for a course I’m doing, and my debate team mates were late teens/ early twenties.
We were discussing debating in general, and controversial topics, and many of them stated that they would be unable to debate in favour something they didn’t agree with.
Even though I said that the whole point of debating is that it’s not about what you really think, but the ability to step outside your own view point and critically analyse a topic from all sides, but they just kept saying that they wouldn’t or couldn’t go against what they believed.

But I kind of agree with those students, on this part at least. Would you debate the positives of white supremacy over black people if told that’s what your role in the debate was to be?[/quote]
Because the whole skill of debating in an academic sense is that you have one team for and one team against. It doesn't mean that those on the opposing team actually agree with it, it means that they are able to find arguments (however futile) for or against something, or why some people might not agree with it.

Again, it's not about personal opinion, it's about critical analysis. The audience are free to agree or disagree with whichever side they like, but to say that a debate should not be had is quite ridiculous.

And to answer your question, yes I would if that's the role I was assigned in the debate. Just like I debated in favour of Halal slaughter even though in real life I am a vegetarian. It's not about my personal feelings on the topic, it's about trying to look at an issue from many different perspectives, however uncomfortable.

Do people really not understand the concept of academic debates anymore?

Do people really not understand the concept of academic debates anymore?

Apparently not.

I think the only way to stop these idiots is to make them provide evidence for the so called “transphobia” and if they can’t do that they either stop with the protests or get expelled from the uni.

It would be very easy for the uni to do this, yet they chose not to….

I spent my whole childhood watching my mum being beaten up and tortured by my dad and I passionately believe in safe spaces for women… toilets, changing facilities, refuges etc. Recently on MN for example a lady commented on finding a man using the Ladies toilets with the door open when the Gents toilets were operational, this behaviour is indefensible, he knew what he was doing and got a kick out of it! What is happening in this country that a woman can’t feel safe to use a public toilet!

That was my thread and for some inexplicable reason, it got deleted 🙄. Maybe someone at MN got woke…

Did anybody hear the phone in on LBC this morning? There was a primary school teacher on there confirming that they would affirm the gender identity of 4 year olds if they identified as the opposite sex. According to this teacher the world has moved on and everyone is better trained nowadays. I had to go out so I missed the rest of it, but it crossed my mind that a campaign to get journalists and presenters and some teachers to read a couple of books might be worthwhile. In the same vein as sending copies of "Trans" to MPs.

@KimWexlersPonyTail

You can show support by sending a card to the philosophy department at Sussex University and by buying her book, Material Girls. Suspect this thread will be zapped or moved to the naughty corner in Feminism.

Be careful. Threads suggesting buying Kathleen Stock's book have been zapped.

Do people really not understand the concept of academic debates anymore?

I’ve never been involved in a public debate. And your post didn’t mention whether this forms part of a course where debates were to be expected and students(?) signing up would have been aware, or whether the debate was completely unrelated and sprung out of surprise. I technically could make an argument for white supremacy over black people, but I wouldn’t want to, in public…perhaps that is what they meant

@bumblingbovine49

*They have said “trans students feel intellectually threatened” by professor stock*

It is not the job of a university to make you feel intellectually safe, in fact the complete opposite is true. A core reason to go to university is to have your views challenged and discussed. Unfortunately the new ' consumer' culture has meant this is often no longer true. Students are paying so they want to control what they 'buy'

And academics are under constant threat of their departments closing and their losing their jobs, and so keep their heads down maybe more than they should.

There is a real sense of fear in some departments and of course inadequate bullies thrive on picking on the fearful. Victims are almost always women lecturers and often have the added pressure of being bi/ lesbian etc. It is hideous to see.

When Robert Winston is given less time on Question Time(he declared you cannot change sex because sex is in every cell-who knew) than the rest of the panel who were frightened to agree and so waffled shite for the most part and than some student talking out of her arse-then we know the battle is lost.

Fiona Bruce was asked what Kathleen had said but couldn't bring herself to say what it was-probably frightened of the witch hunt-then we know the battle is lost.

The leading biologist in this country was reduced to just an opinion/a view because he declared men cannot become women and even said he would get hate mail for that.

In 20 years time, less, the word woman as adult human female will be gone: maybe less, considering how fast this dogma has already taken hold.

I went to uni to feel intellectually unsafe, to have my ways of thinking challenged. What on earth do these people expect? KS is a philosophy professor. Her job is to teach people to think, to make them question everything. I've read that at least some of these 'protests' originated in the history of art department. How are these kids going to cope when they find out that art can be offensive?

I am GC but I know a few people who are very into trans rights. We have respectful discussions, because we're all interested in each others' views, keen to learn, wanting to understand how others have reached different conclusions, searching for common ground. I can't imagine how anyone functions socially, never mind in education, work, etc, if they are unable to hear views outside their own echo chamber without feeling 'unsafe' ffs. You wouldn't even be able to nip down to the corner shop, sit on a bus, go in a cafe without risking your world crumbling at any time.

@justbackfrombangkok

Do people really not understand the concept of academic debates anymore?

Apparently not.

There is a reason why rhetoric is an integral part of philosophy.

But sadly most people don't give a flying flick...