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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

SHE WANTS A CHILD, I DONT!

524 replies

Bteng83 · 16/10/2021 08:36

Hi,

Straight to the point..we are 38&36. I have a 14yo she has a 6yo. We have been together 3 years.

She really wants a child, I 100% don't. She works with babies in her job.

Early this year She fell pregnant by accident, she lots the child at 12 weeks.

She works with babies at work and its affecting her work and mental health. There are other areas she can work but she says they are short staffed an keep her there. (Nhs)

We love each other, I have said that I'm not the one for her if she does want another child, and I would never stop her in her decision to leave me to fulfil that desire. Although I would rather have her with me.
Please any advice ? It's a big issue between us.

Sorry for the brief description. Thankyou

OP posts:
Zugs · 19/10/2021 01:49

@TheWeeDonkey

PumpertheDumper there is no double standard. I've taken responsibility for my own sexual health since I became sexually active and I would give any woman the same advice too.

Part of being an adult is understanding that actions have consequences.

You miss the point.

This isn't about contraception.

The poor woman wants a baby - contraception is not going to be the answer she wants (nor is giving her a child the partner does not want).

This is lose lose.

Move on.

Ps double standards - when people can't see it, no amount of words can change a biased mind. Sorry.

MrMrsJones · 19/10/2021 01:51

In regards to the snip? If I could click my fingers and it was done I'd do it. But going into hospital scares me very much

You can have it done in the doctors surgery, under local anesthetic

UsedUpUsername · 19/10/2021 02:23

don't think I'm going to dump her an move on, I have just made my feelings clear and will support any decision she makes

You need to leave her so she can have a chance to have a baby with someone else. She will come to resent you for not giving her a baby, what’s the point of staying you think she’ll change her mind?

Shizen · 19/10/2021 07:11

[quote Zugs]@shizen

the most sensible option is neither.

If they want different things they should go their separate ways - not remain with abstinence and no baby.

Think about how she feels and how she is at work every day watching other peoples' babies.[/quote]
@Zugs I agree they should also separate if OP really means it, children isn’t an area that you can meet in the middle on.

The risk of him accidentally fathering a child is not going to go away with a new partner though, unless that partner is herself sterilised.

So, my post stands - the OPs 2 options, if he feels this passionately and sure that he 100% does not want children, is to remain abstinent or to get the snip. No other form of contraception is going to be reliable enough to guarantee he won’t become a father again. And all of them, bar condoms, rely on him outsourcing the responsibility of pregnancy prevention to his partner.

This is the part that seems to be completely going over the OPs head

Pumperthepumper · 19/10/2021 07:32

Ps double standards - when people can't see it, no amount of words can change a biased mind. Sorry.

What a cop out. If you’re going to fling insults around, at least have the backbone to explain them.

YouJustFoldItIn · 19/10/2021 09:27

So it’s not double standards against men, just minor medical procedures?

Pumper I don't know why you are being so obtuse. There are double standards at play here and it is not a completely different thing at all. We all know men's testicles are a very sensitive area. No-one goes into a vasectomy appointment feeling completely relaxed at the thought, however much they might want one.

I suppose women in general are not particularly sympathetic because they feel that after years of the pain and inconvenience of pregnancy, child birth, BFing and taking most of the responsibility for BC, having a vasectomy is not that big a deal for a man to take on. It's the least he can do, in fact, especially when he's the one insistent that there will be no more babies.

And women may be right about that, but it doesn't especially help the man who is about to have someone going for his testes with a needle then a scalpel, now does it? The difference between that and invasive childbirth procedures is that we have no choice and they are unavoidable. I can't imagine we'd volunteer so readily to have our bits surgically or otherwise tampered with if they were.

I suppose you could compare it to a woman having a coil fitted or removed. Most women go into this knowing very well that it will probably be somewhat uncomfortable but that for a number of women it's going to be an extremely painful and traumatic experience. Some feel it's worth the risk but others (me for example) would rather avoid that at all costs and use other methods of BC, because while there is a choice, I will choose to avoid the risk that a coil fitting will be horrendous and the removal of it even worse.

I'd like to think that no woman would wish to humilate or belittle me for that fear. Yet it's true that in general we have little sympathy for men feeling sick with anxiety at the thought of vasectomy and treat it as some sort of joke.

Pumperthepumper · 19/10/2021 09:42

@YouJustFoldItIn

So it’s not double standards against men, just minor medical procedures?

Pumper I don't know why you are being so obtuse. There are double standards at play here and it is not a completely different thing at all. We all know men's testicles are a very sensitive area. No-one goes into a vasectomy appointment feeling completely relaxed at the thought, however much they might want one.

I suppose women in general are not particularly sympathetic because they feel that after years of the pain and inconvenience of pregnancy, child birth, BFing and taking most of the responsibility for BC, having a vasectomy is not that big a deal for a man to take on. It's the least he can do, in fact, especially when he's the one insistent that there will be no more babies.

And women may be right about that, but it doesn't especially help the man who is about to have someone going for his testes with a needle then a scalpel, now does it? The difference between that and invasive childbirth procedures is that we have no choice and they are unavoidable. I can't imagine we'd volunteer so readily to have our bits surgically or otherwise tampered with if they were.

I suppose you could compare it to a woman having a coil fitted or removed. Most women go into this knowing very well that it will probably be somewhat uncomfortable but that for a number of women it's going to be an extremely painful and traumatic experience. Some feel it's worth the risk but others (me for example) would rather avoid that at all costs and use other methods of BC, because while there is a choice, I will choose to avoid the risk that a coil fitting will be horrendous and the removal of it even worse.

I'd like to think that no woman would wish to humilate or belittle me for that fear. Yet it's true that in general we have little sympathy for men feeling sick with anxiety at the thought of vasectomy and treat it as some sort of joke.

Show me the double standard. Show me where the people who tell the OP to take responsibility for his own fertility would not have said that to a woman.

It’s a lazy, boring argument. A vasectomy is not the same as getting a coil fitted. It’s not the same as a smear. It’s not the same as getting a tooth pulled. It’s totally unique. So show me the double standard.

YouJustFoldItIn · 19/10/2021 09:53

Unique how? No-one is saying that a vasectomy is exactly the same as other procedures. Just that the fear and anxiety is very similar to the fear and anxiety women may face around similarly invasive procedures under either no anaesthetic, or a LA, that are somewhat necessary (not purely for vanity for example) yet also avoidable.

You haven't explained how it's not a double standard. The issue is around how we differ over levels of sympathy and empathy at the fear of the procedure, not the procedure itself.

Pumperthepumper · 19/10/2021 10:18

@YouJustFoldItIn

Unique how? No-one is saying that a vasectomy is exactly the same as other procedures. Just that the fear and anxiety is very similar to the fear and anxiety women may face around similarly invasive procedures under either no anaesthetic, or a LA, that are somewhat necessary (not purely for vanity for example) yet also avoidable.

You haven't explained how it's not a double standard. The issue is around how we differ over levels of sympathy and empathy at the fear of the procedure, not the procedure itself.

I have explained why it’s not a double standard - you’re criticising me for taking two totally different things and not treating them exactly the same.

What fear and anxiety would women have around a medical procedure that’s identical to a vasectomy?

YouJustFoldItIn · 19/10/2021 10:24

You are making no sense at all. The fact that they are not identical procedures for both men and women does not prove a double standard or a lack of it.

The procedure isn't the issue. The fear of the procedure is the issue.

Pantsomime · 19/10/2021 10:28

OP if you don’t want children take charge of the situation or you will find you’re accidentally a dad again. Vasectomy if you never want more, it’s the only way and you know it. If she wants a baby she will have a baby and you will have to take responsibility for your involvement. Your partner doesn’t believe you mean you don’t want another because you’ve done nothing about it and are still having sex

Pumperthepumper · 19/10/2021 10:28

@YouJustFoldItIn

You are making no sense at all. The fact that they are not identical procedures for both men and women does not prove a double standard or a lack of it.

The procedure isn't the issue. The fear of the procedure is the issue.

So you are equally sympathetic of women who are getting a flu jab and women who are getting a hysterectomy? Or do you differentiate between medical procedures?
TheWeeDonkey · 19/10/2021 10:38

@zugs I agree separating would be the most sensible option. She's still young enough to have a family with some who wants the same thing, but thats been shot down in flames too.

Thing is we know men like this (not saying op in particular but its an observation). Doesn't want kids, partners' fertile years get behind her, split up, meets new younger woman, has a little family before you can say boo.

Women's fertility ia finite, men's is not. That Is a fact. OP needs to make a decision.

Sidehustle99 · 19/10/2021 11:15

@Pumperthepumper

I'm not sure sympathy is a required prerequisite or a valid argument for avoidance. But sure if you want to argue at tangents to avoid responsibility crack on. This thread is pointless now other than tit for tat as OP is avoiding scrutiny/vague commentary and therefore a dead end. I would be very interested to hear the DPs version of the situation.

Pumperthepumper · 19/10/2021 11:16

[quote Sidehustle99]@Pumperthepumper

I'm not sure sympathy is a required prerequisite or a valid argument for avoidance. But sure if you want to argue at tangents to avoid responsibility crack on. This thread is pointless now other than tit for tat as OP is avoiding scrutiny/vague commentary and therefore a dead end. I would be very interested to hear the DPs version of the situation.[/quote]
Avoid responsibility for what? I’m asking why I’m being accused of double standards and nobody can give me an answer.

YouJustFoldItIn · 19/10/2021 11:37

So you are equally sympathetic of women who are getting a flu jab and women who are getting a hysterectomy? Or do you differentiate between medical procedures?

I genuinely have no idea where you are going with this. But yes, of course I would differentiate. Although it entirely depends around which aspect of the procedure their worries were stemming from. The procedure itself? The permanence? The after-effects and the downtime? The pain during? The post-op pain and potential complications? Being conscious throughout? Fear of not being conscious? What exactly?

Neither a flu jab nor a hysterectomy are comparable to the procedure and experience of a vasectomy in any way whatsoever, so I am not sure why you are making this comparison.

But since you asked, a woman who was seriously needle phobic just wouldn't get the flu jab and no-one could make her. A flu jab is advisable but not essential. A woman who wasn't needle phobic wouldn't need sympathy or understanding for undergoing a 3 second, virtually painless thing.

A hysterectomy is obviously more serious medically, probably essential and unavoidable, but anything done under GA is not scary or painful at the time, due to being under GA. I think most people's anxiety over medical procedures comes from being fully conscious during them - I know mine does. I am sure many more men would be more comfortable with a vasectomy if it was under GA.

So unless hysterectomy woman's fear was of the GA itself and either a) it not working properly, causing total paralysis and the inability to speak but still being able to feel all the pain of the surgery, or b) the fear that she'll die under GA, then of course I'd be equally sympathetic to her as to the woman with the severe needle phobia.

Neither fear is particularly rational or proportionate, but that's not the point. Fears are not always rational of proportionate.

Show me the double standard. Show me where the people who tell the OP to take responsibility for his own fertility would not have said that to a woman.

They probably would say that to a woman in the same circumstances. The difference is that a woman can take better control of her fertility without having to resort to anything quite as extreme or permanent as a vasectomy. She has a range of choices that are mostly painless and pretty non-invasive that a man does not. Even full sterilisation is usually done under a GA whereas vasectomy isn't. That may mean the procedure is sold as 'easy and straightforward' for the doctor to perform, but that doesn't necessarily translate to easy and strightforward for the patient to cope with in terms of their anxiety levels.

Condoms are allegedly unreliable even when used properly and consistently (although not half as unreliable as anecdotally we are led to believe, if you ask me) and vasectomies are to be entered into with the view that they are permanent and irreversible. There can be attempts at reversal but it's not easy or guaranteed.

The procedure is surgically invasive and conducted while fully conscious, involving a local anaesthetic injection into the scrotum. It is not surprising that many men feel super anxious about that. I would be equally anxious if someone wanted to inject deep into my breast, or take a biopsy of it, or inject or cut into my vagina while I was awake. Suffice to say I would not opt to do that unless my health or my life depended on it.

Many invasive procedures under just LA are really unpleasant but we have little choice over if we want to be cured of illnesses/injury or have our infected teeth sorted out with a root canal, for example. So we get on with it stoically. Something like vasectomy is not triggered by pain or illness and there is no urgency, no threat to life or health so it's easy to avoid it forever if the prospect induces huge anxiety.

If I had huge anxiety over the procedure a breast biopsy for example, (the procedure itself, not the added fear that I may have cancer) I'd expect my partner and friends to be supportive and sympathetic. Whereas with men and vasectomies there is often an eye-rolling and from women and a 'stop making a fuss and get on with it' sort of attitude.

There is plenty of justification for why women women might think a man should be just be brave, pull himself together and do it, but that doesn't change the fact that he may not be very anxious and avoidant, however irrational his wife may find that, given that she's had 2 episiotomies, an emergency C section and a ton of stitches getting his kids out. So yes, there is a double standard, albeit a slightly understandable one.

PurpleDaisies · 19/10/2021 11:45

I would love to see the thread “I wanted a baby, he didn’t so he dumped me”.

BreadPita · 19/10/2021 11:47

Thing is we know men like this (not saying op in particular but its an observation). Doesn't want kids, partners' fertile years get behind her, split up, meets new younger woman, has a little family before you can say boo.

People are allowed to change their minds. Even more reason to not get a vasectomy.

Pumperthepumper · 19/10/2021 11:53

@PurpleDaisies

I would love to see the thread “I wanted a baby, he didn’t so he dumped me”.
Why?
Orangebonbon · 19/10/2021 11:53

Not sure why it’s down to the op to get a snip, he’s told her he doesn’t want anymore kids, she needs to accept it. If kids are that important to her she needs to find someone who wants more.

PurpleDaisies · 19/10/2021 11:56

Why?

Are you always this obtuse?
Because that’s the consequence of the op following the advice of lots of posters. She wants a baby. He doesn’t. He needs to dump her.

NotSoNewAndShiny · 19/10/2021 11:59

"Dumped me" sounds inflammatory and dramatic.

'We separated or I left or We broke up because we both wanted different things and neither of us would budge' sounds more neutral and sensible. I doubt anyone rational would find fault in that.

PurpleDaisies · 19/10/2021 12:00

Come on. He would be dumping her. You can coat it in all the euphemism you want but if he unilaterally decides that she wouldn’t be able to cope without them having a baby tog the, he would be dumping her.

Pumperthepumper · 19/10/2021 12:01

@PurpleDaisies

Why?

Are you always this obtuse?
Because that’s the consequence of the op following the advice of lots of posters. She wants a baby. He doesn’t. He needs to dump her.

Do you often want to see threads from the opposite point of view?
PurpleDaisies · 19/10/2021 12:03

Would “I wanted a baby, he didn’t so he broke up with me”, or “I wanted a baby, he didn’t so he split up with me” be more acceptable?