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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think once every 2 weeks is enough?

508 replies

naggy095 · 11/10/2021 07:21

Sorry it’s another PIL one…MIL does this passive aggressive thing of talking to 4mo DD in her baby voice about things that are directed towards me, e.g. “is your mummy anti-social? She is isn’t she!”. My favourite one so far “you’re much prettier than your mummy, aren’t you!”. 🙄

PILs have been going on since the day we got home from the hospital about looking after her overnight (no matter how many times I decline the requests keep coming), and the most recent comment to DD was “we can’t wait for you to sleep over, but you probably won’t know who we are because we don’t see you enough, do we”. We see PILs with DD at a minimum 1-2 times every 2 weeks, we spend a few hours with them each time. They see her more than anyone else on either side of the families.

AIBU to think at least once every 2 weeks is ‘enough’ for a grandchild to see their grandparents?

OP posts:
merrymouse · 12/10/2021 18:38

You are missing my point. Its not how badly the MIL behaves that is the point at issue. The point I'm making is that a child is not their mother's possession (or a job, to use your analogy) that can be withheld or withdrawn as a sanction.

I think this is less about sanctions and more about natural consequences. Of course if the GPs are rude to their daughter-in-law, their contact with their grandchild will be restricted to a limited number of duty visits. If they show some sensitivity and empathy, it is much more likely that they will see their grand children. That is just how relationships work.

Pippy1900 · 12/10/2021 18:39

This is an incredibly passive aggressive way to behave. I would get in laws and husband in a room without baby and say, what you are doing - expressing yourself through our child is passive aggressive. This will be very damaging behaviour to her mental health and emotional development if it continues to when she can understand you. (I’m assuming she is a baby). We will stop it now, it is not acceptable and we will not have it around our child. Then tell her now shall we address what you are voicing by using our child. Visits. We do this amount because…. Give your reasons; time, etc. We know you how important you are in her life so we see you more than any other family members. With regard to the overnight stays, just say I’m not comfortable at the moment with her being anywhere overnight without us and imagine this will be the case for a long time. We will let you know when we are. Do not argue any of these points. Tell her that’s just how it is, she can take it or leave it!

Jewel52 · 12/10/2021 18:41

This brings back really horrible memories for me as I dealt with a passive aggressive MIL for years. Really the key to this is your DH’s reaction- if he accepts her bullying you then this will run and run...i’m Now happily divorced and beyond her vicious comments but your DH could settle this easily, much more easily than you being dragged down to her level. You’re his family now and something that is detrimental to you impacts all of you. Good luck 😉

rosesandbees · 12/10/2021 18:43

*The rudeness aside, I think the reason why they're so pushy with seeing and spending time with DD is because DP has said they always wanted a daughter (not sure if that's instead of DP or as well as...), so I can imagine they see DD as that daughter figure they never had.

Before I was even pregnant MIL would make comments about me stealing her son away, so the signs were there already unfortunately. Even though DP has never been close with his parents so I always found those comments odd hmm .*

This ^ As soon as I read your first line I wondered if they only had one child and hoped to have a daughter. Make it clear that you would like your daughter to have a good relationship with her grandparents but if this attitude towards you continues there will be not visits and no relationship. If it resurfaces stop the visits. Once they respect you and you feel comfortable you can have visits might consider the overnights in future when and if you feel comfortable.

A family friend had a very awkward time with her pil when her daughter was born. They insisted on having the baby to stay and then didn’t want to bring her back. Turns out they had been desperate for a daughter and we’re sort of treating their granddaughter like their daughter.

You and more importantly your DP need to set some boundaries and stop this behaviour.

SpeckledlyHen · 12/10/2021 18:44

@Wearethechampionsmyfriend

If your busy working or doing other things then fair enough but personally I feel once a week is fine. It's their grandchild, I know it's not their baby but if they are anything like me, the baby is probably constantly on their mind. I always took my own children to see their grandparents at least once a week, and I now see my own grandson at least once a week, though we only live a 10 minute drive away.
How to spectacularly miss the whole point of the thread..
LavenderBlue95 · 12/10/2021 18:45

Wow, what a nasty old bat. Why on earth would anyone think it’s okay to bad mouth someone’s mother to their face. No matter what age?

You’ll really need to say something soon and nip that in the bud right now. I never stood up for myself until my DS was born. My PIL were vile to both DH and I. We are now NC and it’s a huge weight off our shoulders. I would probably see her even less until she starts to respect you.

exaltedwombat · 12/10/2021 18:49

She's besotted. Channel it. It will come in useful later.

BabyLove22 · 12/10/2021 18:50

@Immaculatemisconception

Threads like this remind me of other PIL threads, where posters are moaning about grandparents not doing enough free child care.
Completely not what the OP is saying though is it?!
Clusterfckintolerant · 12/10/2021 18:53

@WaterBottle123

If MIL spoke to me like that the number of times she saw my kids would be zero. In accepting that behaviour you're showing DD that bullying is ok.

Tell your partner no more visits until MIL learns to behave like a civilised human being

This. With bells on. Awful behaviour.
TopBlogger · 12/10/2021 18:57

When you are changing DD's nappy say in MiL's hearing, "yes you are so much prettier than Mummy DD, and you are much much prettier than your fecking ugly granny arent you? Yes you are!"

Hope the chat with DP went well

MermaidinJeans · 12/10/2021 19:05

@DappledThings

It's plenty. And they sound like twats.
100% this.
CherryBlossomWinter · 12/10/2021 19:15

I’ve learnt to stand up for myself, after being bullied by family in laws over my son. For a while I let his father take him to the family by himself, as I was made to feel so unwelcome, but I realised that they had won, they’d got rid of me, and could say even more horrible things to my son about me. It became more extreme than yours OP in that it became a way of literally trying to erase me out of the picture. Scary - felt a bit like The Handmaid’s Tale!

So I took a big deep breath and made a promise to myself that all contact with my son without me would stop. Family only to see our son in the home when I’m there. That all comments I would intervene every time. If they really, really wanted a relationship with their nephew/grandson, then being polite and visiting the house shouldn’t be a problem should it? I would be welcoming and polite.

Well that sorted the wheat from the chaff. Most of the family have now not seen our son for 3 years. 3 years! Because it became clear they were only interested in my son if they could have complete control and also bitch about me. MIL has visited, maybe 3x a year, which suits her I think, and now wouldn’t dream of saying some of the nasty stuff she used to say, because I won’t stand for it.

My (now Ex) DP would never stand up for me.

So OP, even if your DP won’t stand up for you, you can. In fact you must. Our kids mental wellbeing is at stake. She will soon stop, most people who are nasty do it because they can, they see a nice person.

gluteustothemaximus · 12/10/2021 19:20

sounds like my parents. passive aggressive bullshit via children. it will get worse.

jakkijax · 12/10/2021 19:30

That needs stopping straight away. She's abusing your home, you and your daughter. Who in their right mind turns a child against its mother !! Tell her to wind her neck in of fuck off... x

naggy095 · 12/10/2021 19:31

Thank you all for the further advice and comments. They have given me a confidence boost to speak up to MIL when it happens again. If anyone saw my update about her family visiting on the weekend and us going, we aren’t going anymore as DP is working and I refuse to go by myself with DD as otherwise I would be invisible and no one would speak to me but take DD and smother her. We haven’t said to MIL yet that we can’t go anymore but I’m sure she won’t be happy, oh well.

I still haven’t had a chat with DP yet either about MIL, hopefully I can tonight if DD doesn’t have colic again and scream for 2 hours straight like she did last night 🙃 I’m sure PILs wouldn’t want to have her overnight when she’s like that!

OP posts:
DreamTheMoors · 12/10/2021 19:37

@naggy095

Sorry it’s another PIL one…MIL does this passive aggressive thing of talking to 4mo DD in her baby voice about things that are directed towards me, e.g. “is your mummy anti-social? She is isn’t she!”. My favourite one so far “you’re much prettier than your mummy, aren’t you!”. 🙄

PILs have been going on since the day we got home from the hospital about looking after her overnight (no matter how many times I decline the requests keep coming), and the most recent comment to DD was “we can’t wait for you to sleep over, but you probably won’t know who we are because we don’t see you enough, do we”. We see PILs with DD at a minimum 1-2 times every 2 weeks, we spend a few hours with them each time. They see her more than anyone else on either side of the families.

AIBU to think at least once every 2 weeks is ‘enough’ for a grandchild to see their grandparents?

In baby-talk to baby in front of MIL:

If Grammy keeps remarks like that up, she’ll NEVER see you, will she!

browneyes77 · 12/10/2021 19:37

if DD doesn’t have colic again and scream for 2 hours straight like she did last night 🙃 I’m sure PILs wouldn’t want to have her overnight when she’s like that!

I’d say that’s the perfect time to let them have her. Little karma never hurt anyone Grin Grin

CheekyHobson · 12/10/2021 19:37

One way to look at this is that your MIL has been brought into your life so you can learn how to become politely assertive, which is a great quality that you can pass on to your children. Kids usually learn this skill from their parents, they don't automatically know how to do it!

Your MIL uses passive-aggression and manipulation to try to get what she wants (ie she's covertly controlling), which is a very unpleasant behaviour to deal with. What she's doing is a form of bullying, and as with all bullies, the only way to stop it is to make it clear that the bullying behaviour won't result in her getting what she wants – but good behaviour will. (Up to a point you're comfortable with, of course.)

First thing is to get your husband firmly onside, because as you've seen, if she can't get her way with you, she'll try to manipulate him. So you need to have a serious talk with him that her insults are hurtful to you and making it hard for you to have a genuine relationship with her. There is literally no good reason in the world for someone to make insulting comments implying that you're antisocial and unattractive. So that disrespectful shit needs to stop.

If your husband is willing to dismiss it with 'she's just joking' then your problem is bigger than your MIL. He needs to understand that insulting someone isn't a joke, it's a method of establishing power, and it's not okay. If he grew up with this kind of thing, he might take a while to get his head around it. Once he's on board and recognises that it's not all right for his mother to insult you, you need to take a united front on a boundary around this behaviour.

The next time she says something like her previous comments, take a deep breath and say, "Kathy, I feel hurt and insulted when you make negative remarks about me but directed to the baby. I would like you to stop doing that."

If she says "Oh, I'm just joking, don't be so sensitive", say in a calm tone with a pleasant expression on your face (you may need to practice this), "You might find it funny, but I don't, so I'm asking you to stop. Having a good, close relationship with you is important to me, and I don't enjoy spending time with you when I'm being insulted, even as a joke." Here, you're offering her a positive outcome of playing nice and also showing that there's going to be a consequence if she doesn't play nice. She's a master of passive-aggression, she'll get the point.

(In the event that she suddenly becomes capable of addressing issues directly, and says, "What are you saying, that you'll keep the baby from me if I don't pander to your sensitivity?" you can reply, "Yes, I'm saying that I feel reluctant to spend time with you when it involves being insulted.")

At this stage she might grumble a bit or say something passive-aggressive like "We hardly get to spend any time with you anyway" or some other kind of bait; literally just continue to keep a pleasant expression on your face and don't say anything in response. Calm silence is a powerful tool of assertion. Your goal is to communicate your message calmly, clearly and politely without giving an inch or allowing yourself to be caught up in a drama.

The behaviour might well now stop but if it occurs again, you will have to make the boundary crystal clear. Again with the pleasant face and calm tone, "Kathy, I've told you before that I don't enjoy spending time with you when you insult me through the baby. If you continue to disrespect me in this way, I'm afraid I will have to end our visit and take a break from seeing you."

This may spark a lot of protest and argument. "How can you keep me away from my grand-daughter! I can't believe you're being so ridiculous! What nonsense! What gives you the right? What's your problem?" Etc etc.

Again, you need to stay calm. She's freaking out because she can see she's in danger of losing something she values and she's resorting to her standard tool of control, which is insults. But this is just noise and attempts to get her way through escalating drama. You need to rise above, ignore her bait (ie don't respond to the specific things she's saying), but instead stay on message, repeatedly saying the one thing that reminds her of the positive outcome of behaving well and asks for an agreement on better behaviour from her. "Like I said, Kathy, having a good relationship with you is important to me but that's just not possible when you insult me through the baby. Can you please stop doing that?"

When she sees you're determined to hold the line, it's likely she will back down (because you are the one with the real power here), although she may well serve the backdown with a side of insults "Well, I think it's ridiculous, but fine, if you're going to be that way." An agreement is all you're after, so again, ignore the bait and say, "Great, I'm glad you understand."

Now you have a line in the sand. Bullies are usually quite weak inside, despite their external bluster, so it's quite possible your problem will be solved. However, if she keeps doing it, the very next time it happens you have to deploy the consequence immediately. She insults you, you pick up the baby and say, "I've been very clear with you that I won't tolerate insults if you want to spend time with me and baby. It's time for you to leave." Then open the door and stand by it waiting for her to leave. (Or if you're at her house or somewhere else, "It's time for me to go." Then do it.)

Your husband has to be 100 percent behind you on this. If she goes to him to complain, he has to say, "Mum, the way you've been speaking to Naggy is really not okay. She doesn't like it, and I don't like it. I know she wants a good relationship with you, so if you can speak to her more respectfully, everyone will get along."

Sure, you could try to pass this to your husband to deal with in the first place, but you won't gain her respect that way. Most bullies actually have a grudging respect for people who are strong enough to refuse to be bullied AND can do it in a civil way. Game recognise game, you know? Of course, a small number of bullies don't, and will continue to escalate, but that's when you know you're dealing with someone truly toxic, and have a genuine problem on your hands. I'm sure you'll make another thread if that happens.

Genzymoo · 12/10/2021 19:51

For passive aggressive comments, the passive is pretty subtle.

Like you, I tend to avoid confrontation. Unfortunately, I seem to squirrel all those grievances away to get used in a super-rant a few months/years later (usually when discussing something unrelated). By this time you rather lose any sympathy or understanding.

I would explain to DP;

  1. not only what MIL says/has said, but how it makes you feel;
  2. that it needs to be addressed with MIL;
  3. that if DP is not willing/prepared to address it, you will have to do so yourself.

Poor you OP - they sound like an absolute nightmare.

Phobiaphobic · 12/10/2021 19:52

My advice is to move to Australia. Your MIL is a spiteful, passive-aggressive nightmare with the mental age of a five-year-old. Good luck.

HTH1 · 12/10/2021 20:05

YABU, it is FAR too much. You should consider moving far away immediately.

HTH1 · 12/10/2021 20:09

“is your mummy anti-social? She is isn’t she!”.

Answer: not as anti-social as Grandma and at least Mummy has manners.

My favourite one so far “you’re much prettier than your mummy, aren’t you!

Answer: at least you don’t take after Grandma, so there’s hope for you yet.

“we can’t wait for you to sleep over, but you probably won’t know who we are because we don’t see you enough, do we”

Answer: we’ll consider letting her sleep over when she’s 16 and old enough to make up her own mind. Let’s hope Grandma isn’t in a home by then!

appleturnovers · 12/10/2021 20:11

[quote Katyppp]@5128gap, I agree with you and find all the responses ridiculous and dramatic. That does not include the OP's first and subsequent posts, by the way.
It's always the I laws too, never the parents.
I find we are a lot less forgiving and adaptable nowadays and posts such as these illustrate how easy it is to get caught up in froth and drama, with posters all outdoing each other on who can be the most outraged.
I am always uncomfortable about children being used as pawns in any situation, yet time and time again on this thread the op is encouraged to withhold visits to te grandparents. Yet when this is suggested as weaponising the child, more outrage.
I think it is much more beneficial to children to see that some relationships can be difficult or stained, and observe how the problem is handled.[/quote]
Very well said.

Fleshmechanic · 12/10/2021 20:13

Why would you hand your child over to such an utter cunt.

saraclara · 12/10/2021 20:35

@QuizzlyBear

Wow! Next time she starts that shit in front of you, I'd lean over my child, tickle her tummy and say in a happy baby voice, "we'll be seeing a lot less of grandma if she carries on bad-mouthing mummy, won't we?!"

What an utter bitch...

Or maybe, so you're not playing the same game:

"MIL, if you continue to criticise me to my child, you will be seeing less of us, not more."