To think this is weird after a 3rd date?

[cocavino]

We kissed heavily on date 2. On date 3, he had plans at midnight, thus necessitating ending the date at 12pm???

He followed up with a text about what a great time he had.

I'm a bit put off.

And to answer you (again) NotresDames - yes I would say I’m in a happy relationship. I am 45 years old. I experienced some flaky men of various descriptions in my early 20s. There are plenty of these. With my husband it was different from the off. He would always drive across London to pick me up / drop me off. Nothing was too much trouble. He always planned dates and made an effort. Never left me stranded. He waited for me in an alley in the dark if he couldn’t get in the theatre when I was leaving work late just to walk me home and get a drink on the way; always made me feel prioritised; never played games and is always direct and honest in the way he goes about things. I really respect that in a man. It’s very important. Among our children, we have two daughters and I hope they expect nothing less in the future.

@JustLyra whatever

To be honest, I doubt that everyone who is dating is completely emotionally healthy, with clear ideas of what they want from dating/a relationship. I don't think I am such a broken freak as some people seem to be suggesting. I find dating difficult and I am working out what I do and don't want and what type of behaviour is acceptable to me

A lot of people are fine and emotionally healthy with very clear ideas of what they want. (ONS FWB Relationship)

No one called you a 'broken freak'. You are using emotive language on purpose here to criticise other posters.

You admit you find dating hard and what is acceptable.
People are giving you their opinions and you are rejecting a lot of them.

Also, you don't have to do what your therapist says. I know a lot about therapy and it's not good practice to tell clients what to do. Most therapists ask questions and allow their clients to find their own answers- not dictate behaviour.

What posters here are saying is that if you list all the good things this guy did, they outweigh the one thing that's annoyed you.

You need to start being honest with yourself, not changing your recollection and story to suit how you feel when reading critical posts about your behaviour.

How did the night end OP? You suggested seeing a further show? Does that mean the show you had planned had ended and you wanted to prolong?

@MsHedgehog yes, the show we were scheduled to see ended. The staff told me that the next show at the same venue was meant to be a banger and I suggested staying on.

Please stop banging on about the OP wanting sex or feeling she was owed sex. She has has explained her feelings - so listen.

It’s very peculiar indeed to keep using this against her.

If he had left after an afternoon date, for a dinner event with friends, would you be saying the same thing?

What does this have to do with it?

Really? @5catsonthedesk

It has everything to do with it, because it's the same scenario but a different time of day.

So what's your answer?

Say they went to a matinee at the cinema then he went on to a party in the evening.

Would the OP be right to be offended as he'd not told her beforehand?

or not?

Simple question.

It did feel deflating that he gave me a peck and ran off when I might have expected slightly more based on the last date

It's this 'expectation'. 'We snogged before, so I expect more this time.' It's exactly what we train our boys not to think. Expecting anything beyond good manners on a 3rd date is too much expectation. And he fulfilled all the things you agreed together to do, he said goodbye politely, and he was in touch afterwards. You were 'expecting' more snogging at the very least, and it would never be ok for a man to 'expect' that from a woman, especially not with a 'Well, you did it last time!' attitude.

@NotresDames again, there is a logical flaw in your argument. Yes, many people are totally emotionally healthy and know what they want. I simply said that i suspect there are many who are not so fortunate.

And people have said I am spectacularly rude and too emotionally fragile to date. Perhaps I used emotive language, but I don't think that I have strongly misrepresented the criticism here.

I don't think the guy is a monster. I'm just not sure that I am happy with how he handled the situation. This may mean he's not for me.

My ex used to always point out the things he had done right when he also had done something unforgivable. Just because this guy may have more positive ticks than negative on an imaginary checklist doesn't mean that he is a good person for me to date.

[quote cocavino]@MsHedgehog yes, the show we were scheduled to see ended. The staff told me that the next show at the same venue was meant to be a banger and I suggested staying on.[/quote]
So he didn’t end the date early or simply bugger off. The show ended and you wanted to prolong. And he couldn’t as he already had plans. Is that really so bad?

This guy is clearly into you, as evident by his attempts to plan date 4. Don’t ruin it because you were disappointed. Who knows where it could lead. What he did is far from unforgivable.

NotreDames - it’s not relevant though because it all depends on context. Of course when you go in a date you don’t expect for it to go on forever into eternity. It depends. If you say you are meeting for lunch, then you meet for lunch . But that’s not the context here. I think you are missing the point.

The bit I don’t get here is not that he didn’t say that he had to split at midnight, but the expectation that he wouldn’t.

I mean, if he’d said, “Yeah, let’s have dinner Saturday. And - just so we’re clear - I have no plans for later on,” we’d be looking at a thread about the outrageousness of his expectation of third-date sex.

Or if he’d said, at eleven, “Lovely evening, but I’m going to call it a night because I’m shattered,” we’d be looking at a ‘is he sending mixed messages’ thread.

Then again, if he’d said, “Yeah, I can do Saturday evening, but I have to leave at elevenish,” would the OP have said, “Ah, no - not Saturday then, because I was hoping to get laid. I mean, I’ve bought the waxing kit and everything.”

I think not. But if she would have, who’s being unreasonable to whom?

So what was he supposed to do?

There is nothing illogical about saying that a lot of people know what they want. Logic doesn't come into that.

What was Date 2? How did it end with snogging in London?

How far had you planned for this to progress to sex? Did you expect not to be going home that night? Did you want to take him to your home (I assume you have your DCs alternate weekends which is why you are free only every 2 weeks.)

In your head, had you whipped up a romantic and sexual scenario that didn't happen?

I think we all understand that and have that T-shirt.

But your reaction to not having your date extended is your issue. Not his. He did a lot of things right.

@5catsonthedesk

NotreDames - it’s not relevant though because it all depends on context. Of course when you go in a date you don’t expect for it to go on forever into eternity. It depends. If you say you are meeting for lunch, then you meet for lunch . But that’s not the context here. I think you are missing the point.

No, you are avoiding the question.

If you meet for dinner or a gig, you meet for dinner and a gig.

How you can say you meet for lunch and you know it's just lunch is illogical.

Some people meet for lunch and get a room, or go on to dinner, or dinner, bed and breakdfast.

@5catsonthedesk

NotreDames - it’s not relevant though because it all depends on context. Of course when you go in a date you don’t expect for it to go on forever into eternity. It depends. If you say you are meeting for lunch, then you meet for lunch . But that’s not the context here. I think you are missing the point.

They went to see a show and the show finished. OP then wanted to see a second show which wasn’t planned. Which category does that fall into?

You might find it help to read your first few posts @cocavino You wrote them when on the train after he left.

he said nothing about having later plans. It's not so much that my ego is bruised that i haven't had sex in a number of years?

And a few posts later you said maybe you just want a casual fling and you want to feel attractive.

That's what this is all about.
Please be honest with yourself and not backpedaling.

Yes NotreDame - people often say things like that when they’re feeling let down don’t they - “Oh never mind, I only wanted a fling / shag / whatever anyway.” Etc etc. It’s not a nice feeling and this can be defensive. Please have some compassion.

@NotresDames i was honest about my feelings in the moment. I find it bizarre that this is now being used against me

The bottom line as far as I am concerned is that a fairly large number of people agree that it's weird he didn't mention his onward plans earlier in the evening. I won't apologise for feeling confused and deflated when he showed no interest in any physical contact whatsoever.

I clearly read the situation wrong, but also an emotionally intelligent person probably would have known that after passionate kissing on date 2, there may be a reasonable expectation that an evening night out might involve more than a peck on the mouth, and they would have headed off potential disappointment by making the position clear early on.

To be honest, I don't think that the separate feelings I have expressed are particularly relevant and I don't think it has been helpful the way some posters appear to be delighting in playing some sort of gotcha game to make me out to be hypocritical

He would always drive across London to pick me up / drop me off. Nothing was too much trouble. He always planned dates and made an effort. Never left me stranded. He waited for me in an alley in the dark if he couldn’t get in the theatre when I was leaving work late just to walk me home and get a drink on the way; always made me feel prioritised; never played games and is always direct and honest in the way he goes about things. I really respect that in a man. It’s very important. Among our children, we have two daughters and I hope they expect nothing less in the future.

Did you ever drive or plan dates?

but also an emotionally intelligent person probably would have known that after passionate kissing on date 2, there may be a reasonable expectation that an evening night out might involve more than a peck on the mouth, and they would have headed off potential disappointment by making the position clear early on

An emotionally intelligent person would not be expecting anything. They'd be keeping aware of the situation at hand and making sure that they were emotionally comfortable with what was going on, rather than making up a future and being disappointed it wasn't real. He may well be emotionally intelligent and have expected the same from you, in the manner of the way we teach our girls to feel: You don't need to explain in advance that your date will not be getting physical intimacy, because they should not be expecting it of you.

I clearly read the situation wrong, but also an emotionally intelligent person probably would have known that after passionate kissing on date 2, there may be a reasonable expectation that an evening night out might involve more than a peck on the mouth, and they would have headed off potential disappointment by making the position clear early on.

But logically you understand why if a man was writing this about a woman there would be an outcry? How long as women we have fought for men not to have that attitude to us, and why many of us will not accept the double standards. That it’s ok for a woman but not a man.

Becayse that’s a slippery slope. You start saying it’s ok for a woman to expect sexual activity from a man and to bin his arse when he doesn’t step up then it’s a much harder fight to say men can’t do th same to women, expect they will perform for them and make it clear before they waste their time thay they won’t be.

We all understand that’s exactly how you feel. Many people feel many things that’s are problematic. Doesn’t make it acceptable.

I think the kissing thing is really dependant on location and possibly how many drinks you've had.
I wouldn't be passionately snogging in public sober but after a few drinks and it felt right then why not.
Also wouldn't be snogging in a nice restaurant or at a train station but would in pub, club or on the dance floor.
So circumstances are important. Also sometimes you get swept up in the moment and the mood takes over and other times it doesn't.

Did you make any moves to kiss him?

‘You start saying it’s ok for a woman to expect sexual activity from a man and to bin his arse when he doesn’t step up then it’s a much harder fight to say men can’t do th same to women, expect they will perform for them and make it clear before they waste their time thay they won’t be.’

Except that is categorically not what the OP is saying in any shape or form.

@5catsonthedesk

‘You start saying it’s ok for a woman to expect sexual activity from a man and to bin his arse when he doesn’t step up then it’s a much harder fight to say men can’t do th same to women, expect they will perform for them and make it clear before they waste their time thay they won’t be.’

Except that is categorically not what the OP is saying in any shape or form.

It categorically is. I even quoted her words.