To think this is weird after a 3rd date?

[cocavino]

We kissed heavily on date 2. On date 3, he had plans at midnight, thus necessitating ending the date at 12pm???

He followed up with a text about what a great time he had.

I'm a bit put off.

I’m not saying it has to be physical on date 3, but obviously things don’t usually go in the reverse direction in that department either (as is the case here).

@5catsonthedesk

If a man is snogging you on one date, then nothing at all in the next - would you even remotely pick up on this screaming klaxon of a clue? Or you just think, “Oh totally normal and he owes me nothing after all. Yes, I’ll definitely be pressing for another date with this one., He’s bound to jump at the chance... ‘

Surely that also goes the other way - the OP clearly didn’t instigate snogging either.

He at least tried to organise another date. And unprompted/without even waiting for her to message to say she was home text her to say that he had had a lovely time.

Why is it that you are so adamant that he isn’t into her when it appears he’s made more effort than her?

If you’re going to adamantly go down that road then from his POV

Date 2 - lots of snogging
Date 3 - no snogging
Suggested date 4 - OP didn’t commit
Asked her to message when she got home - OP didn’t bother
Messaged to say he’d had a great time - OP didn’t reply until next day and was, in her words, luke warm

My sister's relationship, which started back in 2004, sounds similar to this.

They are both London based and work in the tv and music industries. When my DSis first met her partner he would regularly take her to parties or gatherings and just end up disappearing into the night with people, leaving her to go home alone.

At the time though she was beautiful with a great career and owns an expensive property in a great part of London. He was trying to restart his career and IMO he felt he was punching above his weight and felt a little insecure, so treated her like this.

It worked though - she adores him and he's made her very happy thus far. But, fast forward to now, his career is taking off and hers, in a young and very competitive industry, seems unfortunately to be on the wane. She can't have children either and we do wonder how the next few years will pan out for her/them.

It is very different in London. People have a lot of options...

So are you just going to wait and see if he texts again?

@MyOtherProfile correct. I will even update if he bothers!

@Ticksallboxes this is uncomfortably familiar. I have a job that is very impressive and I think that I come off as obviously very intelligent (this sounds dickish, but I know it's true - despite my many other faults). I can't help but think this may put men off.

Yes you do come across as intelligent on here OP, as well as calm and self-aware. This can be threatening to men who are essentially insecure. But definitely better to find out sooner rather than later!

correct. I will even update if he bothers

He probably won’t bother because of the way you’ve behaved. You’ve completely blown him off yet you still expect him to chase. That is really poor form.

And I suspect him not texting because you’ve been rude to him and ignored his messages, then sent a not so friendly one will be confirmation to you that he was never keen?

I know dating in the modern world is hard, but game playing just makes it worse for yourself.

This can be threatening to men who are essentially insecure

OP is actually the one who comes off insecure here, not the man. There is no evidence of him being insecure and threatened by OP. He simply expected the date to finish at 11pm, a time that many venues close, and agreed to meet friends after. His only crime was poor communication.

5catsonthedesk You seem to be projecting here. You are heavily invested in the idea that this man is a dick, when his only crime was not to have sex with OP. You claim it isn’t about sex but you’ve focused solely on the lack of physical actions and completely ignored his kind messages to OP, as well as multiple suggestions of arranging a further date.

The thing about the snogging and no snogging.....

we don't know the context.

I suspect that on Date 3, there was no convenient place to snog!
Unless you dive into a side street (Appletree Yard anyone? :) )

Seeing someone off to the train station in London doesn't exactly leave many places for massive snogs unless you go into a side street.

I'd love to know where Date 2 was and where the intimacy happened @cocavino

I think hes not trying hard enough and youre clearly not the only one who would find it a bit rude and odd.

I have nothing to ‘project’ here as I haven’t dated since the ‘turn of the century.’

I think this thread is fascinating though because it clearly shows how some women get drawn into unsatisfactory relationships. They just tell themselves ‘he’s not done anything actually wrong’ as if that’s enough Or even, ‘he owes me nothing after all.’

If you are having to rationalise things in that type of language in the early days - where do you think that relationship is going?

If he makes no effort on the early dates but you put up with being sidelined and whatever basic scraps he throws you - “oh but look ... he sent me a text” etc etc - imagine what things would be like in the future! Imagine being married with kids to a man who couldn’t even galvanise himself to prioritise you or make an effort on the first few dates! Why would anyone want to engage with such a man. You can’t change people. This is the mentality I don’t understand.

You don't date more than one person at a time! You go on a date, if that isn't right, you tell them, then go on another date. Who dates multiple people? That's dishonest.

Surely it's only dishonest if you lie to them about it?

In my 1970's sex education it was explicitly written in books that dating multiple people at once was a stage before choosing to "go steady". A relationship isn't exclusive until you agree it is.

@5catsonthedesk

I have nothing to ‘project’ here as I haven’t dated since the ‘turn of the century.’

I think this thread is fascinating though because it clearly shows how some women get drawn into unsatisfactory relationships. They just tell themselves ‘he’s not done anything actually wrong’ as if that’s enough Or even, ‘he owes me nothing after all.’

If you are having to rationalise things in that type of language in the early days - where do you think that relationship is going?

If he makes no effort on the early dates but you put up with being sidelined and whatever basic scraps he throws you - “oh but look ... he sent me a text” etc etc - imagine what things would be like in the future! Imagine being married with kids to a man who couldn’t even galvanise himself to prioritise you or make an effort on the first few dates! Why would anyone want to engage with such a man. You can’t change people. This is the mentality I don’t understand.

The voters here disagree with you.

Don't you have a job to go to today or something else to do today? :)

You are very invested in this.

@5catsonthedesk You have made a massive leap there from someone having alternative plans after date 3, to someone being a non committed relationship partner. It’s comparing apples and pears, and honestly, your logic makes so sense. Taking the same approach, OP did the exact same thing by having other plans after date 1, is she also an unsatisfactory partner because she didn’t prioritise him, or is there a difference between date 1 and date 3?

You cannot compare the initial first few dates with being in an exclusive relationship with someone.

@5catsonthedesk

I have nothing to ‘project’ here as I haven’t dated since the ‘turn of the century.’

I think this thread is fascinating though because it clearly shows how some women get drawn into unsatisfactory relationships. They just tell themselves ‘he’s not done anything actually wrong’ as if that’s enough Or even, ‘he owes me nothing after all.’

If you are having to rationalise things in that type of language in the early days - where do you think that relationship is going?

If he makes no effort on the early dates but you put up with being sidelined and whatever basic scraps he throws you - “oh but look ... he sent me a text” etc etc - imagine what things would be like in the future! Imagine being married with kids to a man who couldn’t even galvanise himself to prioritise you or make an effort on the first few dates! Why would anyone want to engage with such a man. You can’t change people. This is the mentality I don’t understand.

But would you say th same to a woman? Or do you have different standards for men and women? Do you tell women they are not trying hard enough if they don’t put out after snogging a man once? Do you tell them it’s unacceptable for them to go to a friends leaving party after a date? That they simply aren’t trying hard enough to please the man?

I'm with @5catsonthedesk on this. This obviously seems fairly minor, but I ignored/made excuses for my abusive ex many times early on in the relationship. Instead of paying attention to the way he made me feel and deciding that I didn't want to spend more time with someone whose actions triggered these feelings in me, I excused them or brushed them off.

This is why I am unlikely to carry on with this guy. There have already been a few other seemingly minor things that have made me less keen. If I get into another relationship, I want it to be with someone who is a bit more excited about me and doesn't leave me feeling on the back foot.

Also, I do think there is a huge difference between date one and date three - especially as a woman. Obviously the social norms and risks to dating are different for women than they are for men. I've generally been ignoring those who go on about double standards, but we do live in a society where different behaviour is expected of the two genders, and these unfortunately are the primary benchmarks i have to measure this guy by

‘You are very invested in this.’

Yet here you are at the same time (and others) repeatedly asking me odd questions

I am working from home at the moment, yes!

It’s not about ‘putting out.’ Please stop being so obtuse. I can’t explain any more.

How did you manage that huge snog on Date 2 if you didn't go back to each others places and you use public transport?

How did you expect to have sex on Date 3? Invite him back to yours?

@cocavino

I am working from home at the moment, yes!

Oh I see. Working while on MN all the time.

I have a deadline at 12 and here I am on MN!

OP has just said it better than I could.

@cocavino

I'm with *@5catsonthedesk* on this. This obviously seems fairly minor, but I ignored/made excuses for my abusive ex many times early on in the relationship. Instead of paying attention to the way he made me feel and deciding that I didn't want to spend more time with someone whose actions triggered these feelings in me, I excused them or brushed them off.

This is why I am unlikely to carry on with this guy. There have already been a few other seemingly minor things that have made me less keen. If I get into another relationship, I want it to be with someone who is a bit more excited about me and doesn't leave me feeling on the back foot.

Also, I do think there is a huge difference between date one and date three - especially as a woman. Obviously the social norms and risks to dating are different for women than they are for men. I've generally been ignoring those who go on about double standards, but we do live in a society where different behaviour is expected of the two genders, and these unfortunately are the primary benchmarks i have to measure this guy by

But you clearly had such a good night you wished to carry on. You were even waxing as you were thinking of shagging him you were that into him

All that happened is he had to go to a friends leaving do after your date.

@5catsonthedesk

I have nothing to ‘project’ here as I haven’t dated since the ‘turn of the century.’

I think this thread is fascinating though because it clearly shows how some women get drawn into unsatisfactory relationships. They just tell themselves ‘he’s not done anything actually wrong’ as if that’s enough Or even, ‘he owes me nothing after all.’

If you are having to rationalise things in that type of language in the early days - where do you think that relationship is going?

If he makes no effort on the early dates but you put up with being sidelined and whatever basic scraps he throws you - “oh but look ... he sent me a text” etc etc - imagine what things would be like in the future! Imagine being married with kids to a man who couldn’t even galvanise himself to prioritise you or make an effort on the first few dates! Why would anyone want to engage with such a man. You can’t change people. This is the mentality I don’t understand.

Sorry but this is just bollocks.

The people who think he hasn’t done anything wrong have have done the same things themselves, may have wider more varied social lives, and are used to fitting in people round other people and activities. At date 3 you’re still very much getting to know someone. Clearly OP wanted a shag but I wouldn’t want to have sex on the third date anyway.

OP is now saying there are other red flags - well that’s slightly different - but the club thing on its own isn’t one.

But you clearly had such a good night you wished to carry on. You were even waxing as you were thinking of shagging him you were that into him

was she that into him or just wanting sex after a long drought?

and to be fair, she did expect him to stay the course of the date, not disappear like Cinderella.

@cocavino One of the issues with being in an abusive former relationship is that people can tend to swing too much the other way in new relationships. They go from tolerating the unacceptable, to not tolerating anything at all. It will take time to find the middle path.

I can fully understand how you are disappointed and hoped to move things on with Date 3.

However, although he was rude and slightly inconsiderate, it was only date 3. The snog on Date 2 was just that and didn't mean he'd want more soon afterwards.

What you need to address is not just his behaviour, but also your own. You set expectations for the date and they weren't fulfilled.
You chose to make this a big thing, and react as you have.
Other women may have been disappointed, but shrugged it off as 'one of those things'. That doesn't mean they will accept abuse, or be weak and passive, just that they wouldn't take the whole event so seriously.

At the start of your thread you said it wasn't about a bruised ego, it was about not getting sex when you expected it.

I think you need to accept it was both of those reasons.

You've said nothing about how much you like this man or not.
It can come over as if all you wanted was sex. when he did a midnight flit, you were angry and didn't respond to his next text asking if you had got home. That was rude and bad mannered too. You could still have been civil even if you had decided not to pursue it further.

As I said before, if you really like him, I'd see him again (IF he asks) and discuss it.

But I don't think you do really like him. I think you liked the attention and the snogging and the hope of sex and you are now making out he was in the wrong, rather than owning up to your own emotions.