To ask how you can justify using a woodburner in a city or town

[MojoMoon]

www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/09/eco-wood-stoves-emit-pollution-hgv-ecodesign?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

New wood burning stoves billed as more environmentally friendly still emit 750 times more tiny particle pollution than a modern HGV truck, a report has shown.

Only stoves that meet the ecodesign standard can be legally sold from the start of 2022 in the UK and EU, but experts said the regulation was shockingly weak.

The report used data on the emissions produced by stoves in perfect laboratory conditions and the pollution could be even higher in everyday use, the researchers said, with older stoves being much worse.

Tiny particle pollution – called PM2.5 – is especially harmful to health as it can pass through the lungs into the bloodstream and then be carried around the body and lodge in organs. At least 40 ,000 early deaths a year are attributed to wood burning in Europe.

Wood burners also triple the level of harmful pollution inside homes and should be sold with a health warning, said the scientist behind a study published in December. The researchers advised that the stoves should not be used around elderly people or children.

The government may have banned the burning of wet wood but has no plans to ban the sale of woodburners, despite the fact that the 8pc of homes that use them are almost entirely in cities and can use power or gas for heating. And are almost entirely fairly wealthy households.

(Those of you who live a "very rural" location, to use a common Mumsnet phrase and are entirely off grid may justifiably need one. But the question was cities and towns).

It worries me so few people know how dangerous PM2.5 emissions are, particularly for pregnant women and children.

YANBU: correct, woodburners should be banned in homes in cities and towns asap

YABU: no, they look pretty and who cares about science and health

I had one in my last house and I've just renovated my snug in my current house and desperately, desperately miss the woodburner but we have not put one in. We're in a small village but for environmental reasons, it's just not acceptable.

I don't have one, so it's pretty easy for me to justify.

My parents house (country village) has an old fashioned open fire, not a wood burner. It's worth its weight in gold when there are power cuts in winter; a source of heat and light which requires no other sources of power except the logs from the store.

If I had my own house, I'd want the option of an open fire at the very least.

Is there a real fuel alternative?

We live right by a major motorway on the downwind edge of town. A town with so much solid fuel use that coal deliveries are still commonplace.

And even with the central heating on, we can’t get the living space properly warm in winter.

I live in city suburbs and a neighbour across the road has one. Judging from the smell, last night he was burning old tyres on it.

I have a range ( or an aga as they are sometimes called )with a back boiler on it so it heats the radiators too. We use it for cooking and heating in the winter.

I have one and installed it due to power cuts and out boiler broke one Christmas and I will never suffer minus temperatures over winter again!

Our hose has a lot of insulation and the fire is lit occasionally when extremely cold -

I don’t need to justify it

Yes again people are penalized not businesses

It also heats the water. I bloody love it.

I think they're gorgeous too look at and I love the smell. I'm currently doing up a rural property and had the option to have one but chose not to, partly for the reasons in the op and partly because the house will be so well insulated that it would likely rarely get used as it is hard to get it so you don't overheat. In a town or city I think the pm2. 5 both in and out of the house would be a much bigger factor in my decision.

I think people are drawn to them as they look pretty, and provide a cosy feel, but now, with gas boilers being phased out and the alternatives all based on electricity, people feel the need for a fall-back...

What happens when the lights go out and the heating goes off?

@MinesAPintOfTea

House coal sales are being banned from May 2023 fyi

www.gov.uk/guidance/selling-coal-for-domestic-use-in-england

I think the positives out weigh the negatives for fires in general.
I spend a lot of time camping and will only go to places that allow fires. Learning to cook on one as a child.
We had a wood burner as a child it was so amazing
The hearth is the heart of the home.

Really of all the things to worry about in terms of the environment this isn’t it. A few people having something nice in their home.

I’m in the very centre of London and in the Ultra low emission area. Last few years I’ve smelled wood smoke in the evenings in my house from somewhere and whilst I do love the smell I really worry about air quality partic for vulnerable and young children living here.

And are almost entirely fairly wealthy households

You lost me with this

All my wood is collected from deadwood and properly seasoned. It's idiots burning green and treated wood who are the problem.

I suspect the coal merchants may be selling smokeless fuel these days - as we only use our stove on very cold nights we get our fuel from the garage rather than delivered.

@HeronLanyon

I’m in the very centre of London and in the Ultra low emission area. Last few years I’ve smelled wood smoke in the evenings in my house from somewhere and whilst I do love the smell I really worry about air quality partic for vulnerable and young children living here.

I think traffic is a much bigger concern in terms of air quality in London - woodsmoke is probably just a drop in the ocean!

And it’s the streets of cheap two up two down terrace that smell strongly of coal smoke. Not “the rich”

Wood is readily available free or very cheap and my burner heats the whole house.

I don’t ever want to be in the position where I need to choose to not heat my home due to energy costs.

Some of my family members have wood burners and seem to feel it’s ok to throw any old olds and sods onto it. They really have no understanding of the impact of the air pollution in their home (and outside generally). One relative likes to recreate an open fire and have the door open sometimes

I live in a town in a supposedly smoke free zone. In my small cul de sac of 15 1930s houses at least 4 have woodburning stoves or open fires. We don't. The smoky smell outside in winter afternoons and evenings is horrible. I don't want to breathe it in. It's not nice or pleasant especially if it's full of harmful particles. I'd like a smoke free zone and the option to report to the council and for action to be taken to stop this type of burning in towns.

YANBU: correct, woodburners should be banned in homes in cities and towns asap

YABU: no, they look pretty and who cares about science and health

I know AIBU is often bonkers but this takes the biscuit for one of the silliest false "choices" in a long time.

In my road it's definitely wood smoke as they've all had deliveries of logs recently.

@twointhemorning

I live in a town in a supposedly smoke free zone. In my small cul de sac of 15 1930s houses at least 4 have woodburning stoves or open fires. We don't. The smoky smell outside in winter afternoons and evenings is horrible. I don't want to breathe it in. It's not nice or pleasant especially if it's full of harmful particles. I'd like a smoke free zone and the option to report to the council and for action to be taken to stop this type of burning in towns.

Do you not think the pollution from cars is rather more of a year-round, larger problem?

What’s going to happen now. No more open fires in pubs.
This is all fucking bullshit. They’re really for aesthetic reasons these days, on in winter only. Not pumping out 24hours a day in slums.
People really need to take a long hard look at what is really killing people. And it’s not Judith in number 23 who uses a wood burner 10 times a year