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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask how you can justify using a woodburner in a city or town

584 replies

MojoMoon · 09/10/2021 09:39

www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/09/eco-wood-stoves-emit-pollution-hgv-ecodesign?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

New wood burning stoves billed as more environmentally friendly still emit 750 times more tiny particle pollution than a modern HGV truck, a report has shown.

Only stoves that meet the ecodesign standard can be legally sold from the start of 2022 in the UK and EU, but experts said the regulation was shockingly weak.

The report used data on the emissions produced by stoves in perfect laboratory conditions and the pollution could be even higher in everyday use, the researchers said, with older stoves being much worse.

Tiny particle pollution – called PM2.5 – is especially harmful to health as it can pass through the lungs into the bloodstream and then be carried around the body and lodge in organs. At least 40 ,000 early deaths a year are attributed to wood burning in Europe.

Wood burners also triple the level of harmful pollution inside homes and should be sold with a health warning, said the scientist behind a study published in December. The researchers advised that the stoves should not be used around elderly people or children.

The government may have banned the burning of wet wood but has no plans to ban the sale of woodburners, despite the fact that the 8pc of homes that use them are almost entirely in cities and can use power or gas for heating. And are almost entirely fairly wealthy households.

(Those of you who live a "very rural" location, to use a common Mumsnet phrase and are entirely off grid may justifiably need one. But the question was cities and towns).

It worries me so few people know how dangerous PM2.5 emissions are, particularly for pregnant women and children.

YANBU: correct, woodburners should be banned in homes in cities and towns asap

YABU: no, they look pretty and who cares about science and health

OP posts:
Iggly · 09/10/2021 11:14

We have one and it’s only recently that I have learnt about wood burners and how bad they are for air pollution.

We’ve had power cuts and our boiler stopped working one winter when it was snowing and I was so grateful to have it as an option. But we don’t use it that often - when it’s cold, the heating comes on instead.

dualteaching · 09/10/2021 11:14

I think the AIBU choices are very reasonable: do you go with the science, which is clearly showing the damage it is doing to those in your home and those around you. Or do you ignore those reports, because you care more about things being 'cosy'? I don't see how these are somehow 'manipulative'.

I love a wood burner, always dreamt of having one. They look beautiful and I love the atmosphere, etc. However, I realised it cannot be justified if you want a clear conscience. My cosy home dream should not come at such a cost.

Insomniacexpress · 09/10/2021 11:15

We live rurally but half the house is only heated by radiators linked to a back boiler to a wood burner. There is no mains gas. The only other option would be putting a huge oil tank in the garden. As we’re mid terrace not really a true option. We try to alternate between space heaters and fire and collect and season our own dead wood. As there are potentially power cuts this winter and gas prices are rising I’m ok with this.

Yourstupidityexhaustsme · 09/10/2021 11:15

Justify what?

97% of the world's emissions are caused by conglomerates. Sue down the road lighting her wood burner really doesn't make an ounce of different to climate change.

Are you a vegetarian/vegan if you're so concerned with climate change, OP?

Asdf12345 · 09/10/2021 11:18

We have two open fires we burn exclusively house coal on which I wouldn’t be without.

FrazzledY9Parent · 09/10/2021 11:18

@Yourstupidityexhaustsme

Justify what?

97% of the world's emissions are caused by conglomerates. Sue down the road lighting her wood burner really doesn't make an ounce of different to climate change.

Are you a vegetarian/vegan if you're so concerned with climate change, OP?

But it's not just about climate change - it's about local air quality. So Sue down the road lighting her wood burner may well immediately make her neighbours feel chesty/wheezy/set off an asthma attack. That's what convinced me to stop using mine.
doi3456 · 09/10/2021 11:18

people have mentioned open fires, but many chimneys are badly constructed and there is so much cold air the fire doesn't bring warmth, but does bring a lot of smoke

we are in the country and i'd prefer open fires but it is impossible in our house

sqirrelfriends · 09/10/2021 11:18

I love them, there's nothing better than sitting in front of one on a cold winter day.

However I just can't justify the environmental cost.

People I know who have them aren't on mains gas and live in the countryside anyway.

FrazzledY9Parent · 09/10/2021 11:19

BTW, the OP explicitly said that she is talking about woodburners in cities and towns, she was not asking people in rural areas to justify themselves.

DGRossetti · 09/10/2021 11:20

New wood burning stoves billed as more environmentally friendly still emit 750 times more tiny particle pollution than a modern HGV truck, a report has shown.

Well, yes. But since the shortage of HGVs, it must be OK, surely ?

(I may not be taking this as seriously as some).

ohthestruggles · 09/10/2021 11:20

We live rurally, have one wood burner in the living room and our central heating is biomass. We only use the stove in winter. In laws live in a big old house and have three wood burners and one open fire.. only ever used in the winter and certainly not all of them. I don't think people are firing up their wood burners all day and night all year round, therefore YABU. If people would stop fucking flying everywhere then that might help. As soon as we came out of lockdown I would say most of the people I follow on social media (influencers I am looking at you) were after a holiday abroad..Hmm

icedcoffees · 09/10/2021 11:22

@FrazzledY9Parent

BTW, the OP explicitly said that she is talking about woodburners in cities and towns, she was not asking people in rural areas to justify themselves.
I'm in a town but we still had no central heating for five months last winter. Poor housing and expensive heating bills aren't just the preserve of rural areas.

Lots of people in towns will be poor and will find it to be much more cost effective to run a wood-burning stove than to put the heating on.

FourTeaFallOut · 09/10/2021 11:22

We're having to put in a whole house ventilation system to reduce the breathing difficulties I have caused by my neighbour's log burning stoves. It an expensive and not perfect solution but it's one I'm boxed in to while they can crow about their cosy and cheap fuel.

icedcoffees · 09/10/2021 11:24

But it's not just about climate change - it's about local air quality. So Sue down the road lighting her wood burner may well immediately make her neighbours feel chesty/wheezy/set off an asthma attack. That's what convinced me to stop using mine.

And what if you had no choice but to use the stove?

If you have a choice and decide not to use it, then you're very privileged. Many people rely on wood-burners to heat their homes as they can't afford to run the central heating or to buy electric or oil radiators.

sqirrelfriends · 09/10/2021 11:24

@FrazzledY9Parent we have the same here. Quite a few neighbours had them on during some bad fog last year and we could barely breathe outside as the air was so still.

What made it worse was that there was a lot of covid about. People were complaining on Facebook that it was making their symptoms worse.

wolfstarling · 09/10/2021 11:25

I am surrounded by log burners - 4 houses. When there is heavy cloud it feels like the Victorian times.

It's just a fad and needs a ban in surburbia.

Insomniacexpress · 09/10/2021 11:25

@FrazzledY9Parent agreed, but there are enough people on here commenting about how even rural homes should bin them.

Opalfeet · 09/10/2021 11:25

@MinesAPintOfTea not quite being banned in 2023...depends on the area. You're forgetting that some people depend on coal for heating, there's no gas line on the outskirts of many villages for instance.

FrazzledY9Parent · 09/10/2021 11:30

@icedcoffees

But it's not just about climate change - it's about local air quality. So Sue down the road lighting her wood burner may well immediately make her neighbours feel chesty/wheezy/set off an asthma attack. That's what convinced me to stop using mine.

And what if you had no choice but to use the stove?

If you have a choice and decide not to use it, then you're very privileged. Many people rely on wood-burners to heat their homes as they can't afford to run the central heating or to buy electric or oil radiators.

Around here, the people who have woodburners are on the whole well off middle-class families. Of course I don't begrudge somebody who can't afford to put the heating on lighting their stove - but that doesn't apply in at least 95% of cases. Families who are struggling in my town are unlikely to have a woodburner or the money to buy wood. They are, however, disproportionately impacted by air pollution.
UsedUpUsername · 09/10/2021 11:30

@Yourstupidityexhaustsme

Justify what?

97% of the world's emissions are caused by conglomerates. Sue down the road lighting her wood burner really doesn't make an ounce of different to climate change.

Are you a vegetarian/vegan if you're so concerned with climate change, OP?

It’s not about climate change.

It’s about having cleaner air to breathe. Nothing at all to do with carbon emissions

seaandsandcastles · 09/10/2021 11:32

How can I justify if? Easy! I love the atmospheric feel of having a lovely toasty fire to sit in front of while it’s awful weather outside.

There’s nothing more seasonal 🥰

Theunamedcat · 09/10/2021 11:32

Rising gas prices might cause more people to have them you can buy green wood in the summer when its cheaper and season it at home it then takes you through the winter

Yes im aware your not supposed to buy/sell green wood but who is checking really?

MobyDicksTinyCanoe · 09/10/2021 11:33

My uncle wouldnt have any heat at all without his....... He's extremely low income and cant afford to heat his home any other way.. He collects wood off the beach near his house and keeps one room warm where he lives and sleeps.

It's not a choice that's been made because they look pretty for a lot of people it's a choice they've made to save what little money they have.

UsedUpUsername · 09/10/2021 11:33

@ohthestruggles

We live rurally, have one wood burner in the living room and our central heating is biomass. We only use the stove in winter. In laws live in a big old house and have three wood burners and one open fire.. only ever used in the winter and certainly not all of them. I don't think people are firing up their wood burners all day and night all year round, therefore YABU. If people would stop fucking flying everywhere then that might help. As soon as we came out of lockdown I would say most of the people I follow on social media (influencers I am looking at you) were after a holiday abroad..Hmm
I don’t care about climate change. I do care about having fucking clean air to breathe.
MmeD · 09/10/2021 11:33

But what about particulates being lodged in your organs?