Is there a stigma in dating single mothers?

[adatingquestion]

Not British, so need some cultural guidance. Also probably quite unexperienced relationship wise, so apologies in advance for a stupid question.

Someone I have been dating for a couple of months now (my first relationship after a couple of years spent single), said that he is unsure about how to introduce me to his friends and family, as being in a relationship with a single mother is likely to raise quite a few eyebrows. For clarity, I did not press him or raise this topic, he just said it when we were discussing friendships in general. I asked why, but he just kept changing the topic without giving a specific answer.

I thought this was going well - progressed organically from just casually knowing each other to friends and then to romance - but now unsure. And, to be honest, almost on the brink of quitting this relationship.

He does not have children himself, I have two (quite young), and the relationship is light years away from them being introduced. My question is whether he hinted that there's some sort of a general stigma, or could he have meant something like "I have never been paternal so they'd be surprised"?

@OnwardsAndSideways1

I don't think he thinks you are beneath him. I think he's probably single in his mid-fifties for a very good reason and is actually quite worried you might leave him so is creating barriers and uncertainties in you. His friends and family might be surprised he can get you- I bet you are younger, hotter, have a great accent and are a caring nice person.

He sounds old and old-fashioned, can't you do better than this, OP?

Haha... objectively, I am a fat frazzled foreign lone parent. Not a great catch by any measure. I don't mind old fashioned to an extent. There's plenty of lone parents where I am from originally too (ex USSR), but I'd say they usually mostly attract sympathy, not judgment.

The age gap is far too much. Your in different generations and life stages. He may be a nice guy but realistically he won't have kids with anyone at this rate. What do you have in common? Music? I mean you probably don't even know the artist from his time OP..

@Iloveabourbon2

The age gap is far too much. Your in different generations and life stages. He may be a nice guy but realistically he won't have kids with anyone at this rate. What do you have in common? Music? I mean you probably don't even know the artist from his time OP..

Well... I think both of us are gravitating more towards classical music so it is not a big deal as such. I don't know a lot of artists from my time either. In that respect we both are hopelessly out of date.

You sound like you think you aren't a catch, but are you sure he really is? How old are you OP?

I'm more his age group and I prefer men who have had their children, older teens/adults, rather than none, that way they understand my life.

Also, what kind of man can't be honest in his fifties about who he is and what he wants? I'm honestly not getting why you think he's so amazing and you're not all that...

I think there's only a stigma if the other person doesn't have children then selves, as they will likely be concerned about what their parents, family and friends think as they couldn't get a female who doesn't allready have children, I don't know many parents whose single sons who would be happy if they picked up someone who allready has children and then had to play step dad to those children.

It would be seen as a big burden and alot of restrictions in what you can or can't do in the relationship with someone who has children, no travelling abroad for a few months travelling, no moving away to a different part of the country in 5 or so years time, living in a house with someone else's children would be a big deal breaker also.
Its alot less hassle/dramas/restrictions dating someone at the same life stage without children as the person them selves.

@OnwardsAndSideways1

You sound like you think you aren't a catch, but are you sure he really is? How old are you OP?

I'm more his age group and I prefer men who have had their children, older teens/adults, rather than none, that way they understand my life.

Also, what kind of man can't be honest in his fifties about who he is and what he wants? I'm honestly not getting why you think he's so amazing and you're not all that...

I am 36. I would not date him if he wasn't amazing from my perspective. He's educated, very funny, sensitive in a good way, kind. I just started to feel like there's maybe some serious long term potential here - we made some long term plans (holidays etc - not easy for me as I have to organise childcare cover for a week or so), were discussing some quite serious topics - and then this came down as a bucket of cold water.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

I wouldn’t have said there was a stigma. I would have said some people are warey of baggage/ taking on responsibility for kids. Not really the same thing imo

I agree with this, when people say they won't date single mums, what they are saying is they don't want to take on the responsibilitys of someone else's children, they don't want to create a step/blended family in the future, don't want to go on family days out / holidays / eventually living in a house with someone else's children in the future.

Not looking to getting tied down and allways being second to the children even though you treat them as your number one priority, and the many restrictions that come with someone else's children, dictating what you can do / when you can do things and where you can go based on childcare arrangements meaning the other person needs to plan their life around the other person's childcare arrangements.

Then there's usually dramas with the exes which they also have to show support for.

Most people with out children would be unhappy in a situation like this and would not choose long term to put up with that situation, dosent make them selfish or anything for being openly honest from the start, their happiness should be priority, not enter a relationship just to keep someone else happy. A single parent should be able to understand and accept that some people don't want to be getting involved in that situation

@adatingquestion

I don’t know though whether it’s actually ‘respectful’ of people to not date single mothers if they don’t want kids as part of the package. Presumably it’s better than using and ditching them if they want an LTR but that goes for any woman and shouldn’t assume that every single mum wants another relationship. Yes, I wasn't specifically looking for a relationship as such (not registered on the dating sites, not reciprocating any attempts from men in the wild - just no desire or time). It just somehow happened naturally and I was quite happy that it progressed slowly and without any undue pressure from any side. Now I am concerned that maybe he's seeing it completely differently - as someone said above, just a single mum "putting out". I think now he was even genuinely surprised at first that I was surprised by his comment - as if he expected that we had an implicit understanding of me being "spoiled goods" of sorts, if that makes sense. Don't know how to explain it better.

He’s introducing you to his people - that’s not what a guy does if you’re just a single mum putting out.

Nor is that the behaviour of someone “lowering himself to your league” or doing you a favour.

Relax - this is almost certainly more about the dynamics between him and whoever he’s planning on introducing you to.

Stigma against single mothers definitely exists. Far less so if they're a bit older, financially solvent and/or divorced (as opposed to unmarried).

Comments about single mothers are often indicative of someone's level of misogyny (and not limited to men). When I overhear the sexist trope about feckless single mothers living on benefits in council houses with children from different fathers, I like to point out that for every child there is a father. The mother might possibly be guilty of poor judgment but at least she's actually meeting her responsibilities and raising the children. Where is the same judgment (and financial and life-limiting penalties) on the fathers who walked away and abdicated both practical and financial responsibility?

Most men i know would date a single mum if they fancy her enough. Lots of my single mum friends and myself as a single mum dated a lot.

Why don't you just ask him what he meant? Chances are that it was a throwaway comment, that reflects more on how his parents see things than how he does.
Yes in certain circles single mothers are still assumed to be feckless. But it's far more likely to be related to practical concerns, as others have said.
My parents are pretty old fashioned and would tend to look down on single mothers in a general sense. But when my brother actually dated one they soon got past that and developed a good relationship with the woman and her children. Often these prejudices are just inherent from their own upbringing and melt away when they realise they actually like the person.

@malificent7

Most men i know would date a single mum if they fancy her enough. Lots of my single mum friends and myself as a single mum dated a lot.

Dating sure…but was it generally harder to get long-term relationships with the high-quality men you wanted as a single parent? That seems to be the issue the OP has here. He is a good match and impressive for her in a number of ways apparently and they seem to be getting more serious…then this issue comes along like ‘a bucket of cold water’.

He's 59 and he genuinely wants to have a baby of his own and considers there to be a chance his partner wouldn't already have kids? He's already lucky enough to be dating someone as young as you. The chance of him dating anyone young enough to give him a baby and not already have their own is slim to none. If he wants a family he should be grateful to be able to become a step father. Also at the age of 59 most people are becoming grandparents soon, not parents. I'd have expected him to accept he's not going to have biological children a long time ago

He’s introducing you to his people - that’s not what a guy does if you’re just a single mum putting out.
Ah, that's the problem. I don't think he ever will, the whole problem I have is that he said he wouldn't even know where to start with this.

@jimmyjammy001 I am absolutely accepting of the fact that dating a single parent is not for everyone. Here I have a situation where we are already dating for some time, so he is presumably OK with my issues around childcare and attention he gets.

I think you need to look at what he's done rather than what he says. He's kept you a secret for nearly a year. Are you happy with that?

Maybe he does love you, but if so, why isn't he proud of you? Why won't he introduce you to his friends? I dunno, as a59 year old bloke, with friends the same age, maybe they are going to judge him for going out with a much younger, foreign, mum. The age gap is massive. quite frankly it's ridiculous of him to be thinking of having kids at his age.

I'd just look at his actions. He's kept you a secret from his friends for a nearly a year. Maybe they will think you're a gold digger. Maybe they will think that you're looking for a father for your kids. Maybe they will think that he should stick with someone his own age. Who knows? But he shouldn't care, and he's being an arse.

@Blinkingheckythump

He's 59 and he genuinely wants to have a baby of his own and considers there to be a chance his partner wouldn't already have kids? He's already lucky enough to be dating someone as young as you. The chance of him dating anyone young enough to give him a baby and not already have their own is slim to none. If he wants a family he should be grateful to be able to become a step father. Also at the age of 59 most people are becoming grandparents soon, not parents. I'd have expected him to accept he's not going to have biological children a long time ago

I think it could be possible, his previous partner was several years younger than me and did not have children of her own (but also did not want any, hence the break up). Naturally, it is much easier for men to become a parent later in life.

Whether or not it's possible or likely for him to have kids etc is irrelevant

He's told you that he wants kids with someone who doesn't already have them

He's reluctant to introduce you to his circle because of how they might perceive you...he should be bursting with pride to introduce you to them

You can do better than this!

@adatingquestion

He’s introducing you to his people - that’s not what a guy does if you’re just a single mum putting out. Ah, that's the problem. I don't think he ever will, the whole problem I have is that he said he wouldn't even know where to start with this.

I don't think thats a great sign. Yes, for some people, there can be a stigma around single mothers just as there can be a stigma against people from different ethnicities, or particular financial backgrounds, or people that dont have a university education, or those that do, or class. But generally - if someone is properly into you they SHOULD actually be eager to show you off/introduce you to the people they care about. Even were people have very difficult families and are worried about their reaction I would expect them to be protective of their partner when introducing rather than not at all. So - it seems quite likely the single mother thing is coming from his own insecurities/stigma rather than his friends. And also, I hate to say it, that even though he's lovely to you, he's not as into you as you are into him.

Also - I don't have an issue with age gap relationships generally (so long as everyone is a mature adult) but I don't think its a great sign when someone is consistently dating people much younger/older than themselves. So I would be fine if I was a 15 years younger than my partner. I would be weirded out if I found out his last ex was 20 years younger, and the one before that 14 years younger etc etc

@adatingquestion

He’s introducing you to his people - that’s not what a guy does if you’re just a single mum putting out. Ah, that's the problem. I don't think he ever will, the whole problem I have is that he said he wouldn't even know where to start with this.

I dated someone twenty-four years younger than myself for a couple of years, and I was also reluctant to introduce her to family and friends.

I was living close to 1500 km away from the nearest of them at the time, so it wouldn’t be a casual thing, but... guys of a certain generation (I’m Gen X) who grew up being taught to suppress certain emotions take a fair amount of joking at their expense whenever they have someone that they care about.

There are the remarks to the guy, and there are the attempts to embarrass him to the girl. And it makes those initial introductions... easy to put off sometimes.

Doubly worse if there’s something even remotely non-standard which will be additional ammunition in the onslaught of hilarious jokes at his expense. In this case, your children and your age difference.

Not that it’s an excuse, mind you, but like any unpleasant formality, it can wait until tomorrow. Or the next day.

If it’s important to you, then he’ll have to suck it up and do it sooner rather than later. If it’s not of pressing importance to you, he’ll be relieved.

@Pretzelcoatl But here's the thing (and I have no idea how or why the relationship ended so I really don't want to cause offence*). You dated them for just 2 years. That doesn't sound like she was the love of your life even if you liked her. If you had ended with "and that person has been my wife for 15 years" it would be different. Obviously there is nothing wrong with just casually dating someone. There is nothing wrong with 2 people just hooking as FWB for that matter. But if the OP is really into the relationship from her end, and for him she is someone he is only seeing but doesn't plan to introduce to his family/friends then she is likely to get hurt.

*As I said, my unreserved apologies if she died tragically or ran away with the postman the day you planned to propose etc.

Naturally, it is much easier for men to become a parent later in life.

Is he a billionaire? How many women realistically want to have a baby with a 59/60 year old? He sounds immature at best.

So we had a text exchange this morning and indeed we are seeing the situation differently. He thought that we already had "the talk" when he explained that he wants a family with someone without any prior baggage, and therefore implicitly agreed to keep it casual / temporary. I did not understand it like that at that time, thought it was more of an "in the ideal world, I would like..." discussion, and not a memorandum of understanding. So yes, basically confirmed I don't meet his standards but otherwise a great person and he wishes me all the best.

I guess this closes the topic. @Pretzelcoatl and all, thank you for your contributions, it was quite interesting to read the male perspective, by the way.

@Poetrypatty

Naturally, it is much easier for men to become a parent later in life.

Is he a billionaire? How many women realistically want to have a baby with a 59/60 year old? He sounds immature at best.

No, not a billionaire, a college lecturer. I honestly was not looking for sponsorship.