Is the UK about to collapse?

[Penfield]

Sorry - There was probably a better way to put this.

Does anyone else have a feeling that we are close to some collapse, explosion, disintegration of society ...

With gas prices, petrol shortages, inflation, Brexit fall out, Covid, gaslighting government etc

I feel like we're on the edge of something - big ...

@longwayoff

BTW where is Bozo? Oh, on holiday on the Costa del Sol. Excellent, wouldn't like to think he's depriving himself in any way. Meanwhile, back in UK that holiday's being funded by a £20 UC cut. Hurrah for him and his Tory mates. Are you listening Red Wall? This is levelling up for you. Put another jumper on, you'll be needing it.

Whilst Rishi has planning approved for a swimming pool complex on his estate. A mansion isn't enough.

Great. Why hold back when there's taxpayers money to be spent? I'm aware he doesn't need it but heigh ho, that what it's for. No point having it laying around in the Treasury, someone might waste it on UC. Or free school meals. Or extra staff for police and nhs. Unnecessary stuff like that.

I'd think if our great grand parents could look at the status of the UK in the world, they might think the collapse has already happened.

However, given that we built our empire by invading any place we could, exploiting people/resources, I don't think we'd go back to that? We've also been displaced on the technology and innovation side of things by many other countries.

I'd imagine the rapid collapse of the British empire is already a topic in history classes?

Agreed. This is a bit of a final flourish. The exact opposite of giving up with dignity. However, the rest of the world is having a bewildered and uneasy laugh at us so at least it's making someone happy.

O dea56, you seem a little over-excited, are you Angela Rayner by any chance? Although, on reflection, she seems to have a rather more considered stream of invective so maybe not. It's Sunday. Have a nice rest after lunch.

Well I agree reading the news and media, it feels almost apocalyptic. My anti-anxiety-about-the-world-at-large strategy is to avoid the news and do the day to day. kids, work, kids, sleep, repeat. Some eating too sometimes!

Most of what youydescribing is the result of bad governance. I think what we’re seeing now is the result of decades of no one very good going into politics. The media physically stalk and verbally rip anyone to shreds who does, including their families, so the people who are best for the job go off and do something more peaceful and better paid.

Thus leaving the country to be run by morons.

1. We didn’t have to have a referendum on leaving the EU, that was a dumb way for Cameron to try to lure voters back from Farage.

1. Having decided to have a referendum, the ‘pass’ threshold for change shoukd have been something a significant majority of the country wanted ie 70% as has been done in comparable referenda.

1. Having decided to leave the EU, the government needed to make a plan for dealing with the predicted loss of cheap labour from Eastern Europe, this is the issue behind the petrol problems, farming problems food logistics problems etc.

Boris and his predecessors May Careron and Brown were very excited about getting to be ‘in charge’ but they had no plan for improving and running the country. They don’t even seem aware that that is their job. Instead it’s all stirring up the mob / running shady media campaigns to make themselves look good in the press.

But it all comes back to the more competent people ataying well away from Westminster because of the way the media treat those who try. And don’t get me started on the civil service. Incredibly low salaries for professional positions plus flexi working and it basically being impossible to fire the lazy have not led to a workforce that many private companies would tolerate for long.

Skysblue, fair and accurate summary. Utterly depressing and can't see a way out.

I think that the UK has had a long run of peace and stability. Any wars we've been involved in have been fought on foreign soil and not really impacted on the majority os (save those with family in the forces, etc). Throughout history most people have experienced war, social unrest, and food supply challenges at some point in their lives. In many ways we've been incredibly lucky to have had it so good for so long.

No society is above collapse (history is full of 'vanished' civilisations) but I don't think we're anywhere near the verge of collapse yet. Historically though, climate change and food shortages are you biggest indicator so it will definitely be something future generations need to face unless we get our act together with a plan to deal with both.

However, while I don't believe we're facing collapse, I DO believe we are going to face more frequent episodes of social unrest in various pockets around the country. The price and availability of food in relation to people's incomes is a huge indicator for this. With fuel prices rising dramatically, inflation on the rise (albeit currently very small compared to the 70s), and the value of people's incomes falling, there are a lot of people struggling more to feed themselves properly. Crime and disorder always rise during periods of economic difficulty.

I don't believe the UK is on the point of collapse.
But I also remember how suddenly the USSR collapsed. Few saw it coming, and many political commentators were shocked. It taught me that countries can be more fragile than they appear to be.

I recall someone from Lebanon being interviewed after one of its sudden descents into chaos."Overnight, my money was worthless. I had plenty of money and it was useless to us. We were saved by my wife's jewellery, I traded it for air tickets to get us a flight out." I can't envisage such a situation here but then, I've never had to. I hope I never will.

🙄 good lord. The drama here is off the scale.

I dont recall his saying that. It was something closer to thank fuck we were able to get out of there. Hope you never experience similar.

@mellongoose

🙄 good lord. The drama here is off the scale.

Really? The first few responses on the first page were a bit pessimistic a la Eeyore, but recent responses are pretty measured and interesting reading, I thought. Haven't seen anyone shaking and crying, though it's 31 pages now so I'm sure there are a few.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan I’ve learnt that often when people label current affairs as ‘drama’ it really means they don’t like what they’re reading, whether because they just disagree or because to believe there might be some truth in it makes them nervous.

[quote Cornettoninja]@JesusInTheCabbageVan I’ve learnt that often when people label current affairs as ‘drama’ it really means they don’t like what they’re reading, whether because they just disagree or because to believe there might be some truth in it makes them nervous.[/quote]
100%

Do people mean all media?

Or is there some expectance that sensationalism is a useful way to sell / get people to click these days

I think it’s handy to have some insight into the agenda of media and way some platforms / outlets might actually use elements of drama.

Hmm maybe expectation is an actual word

Plus I got the impression the pp meant some posts on thread were dramatic (rather than current affairs)

@MarshaBradyo

Do people mean all media?

Or is there some expectance that sensationalism is a useful way to sell / get people to click these days

I think it’s handy to have some insight into the agenda of media and way some platforms / outlets might actually use elements of drama.

Don’t disagree, but if all media is dismissed as sensationalism then the actual facts underlining the headlines are too often dismissed too. (I’m questioning my use of to/too there )

XR are a great example of this (imho). Their message is based on science that when it’s abstract and not affecting the individual people readily accept. When it moves closer to home and the urgency of need for action is impressed it becomes something different. The media influences a lot of that but we’re not obliged to agree with all the information presented to us and really should take some responsibility about what we accept as a true picture as individuals. There’s nothing wrong with not knowing the ins and outs of everything but there’s a real reluctance to acknowledge that generally. It does seem that we’ve cultivated a society where gut feelings are as important as more detailed facts, in this context for the purposes of dismissal, which isn’t in anyone’s interest.

@MarshaBradyo

God you are rude Oddsocks

I can see why you are so angry about life.

Awwwww ❄️

@QuentinBunbury

I cannot shake the feeling that, to an extent, the Conservatives are “letting” this happen as a punishment for Brexit. That we were warned what would happen and now they are not intervening to stop it. (See Boris’s “It’s not my job” speech) I don't think they are "letting" it happen. I think this was all entirely predictable consequences ("project fear") and there is actually very little they can do to mitigate it. It's our chickens coming home to roost.

I have to not think about it too much because I get so angry. I didn't vote for ANY of this, in fact I actively campaigned against this current government. And its sad this is where we are. However we are a democracy and the majority were clear that "sovereignty" and a long period of hardship were worth leaving the EU for.

Indeed.

This is why tax policies should be targeted.

Those who were loudly happy to vote for Brexit despite it making us poorer: sign up to a public register then, and you can pay the extra taxes required as a result of your decision.

Everyone else who didn't vote for this insanity should be able to continue paying tax at the same rates as they did previously.

These people were apparently so sure their decision was the right one, and so angry at being "patronised" when people pointed out the effect that it inevitably would have on the economy because they already knew this and it was worth it. Which is fine - YOU wanted it so YOU pay for it.

I think suddenly you might find that the 52% shrinks dramatically if they have to pay for it themselves.

@MythicalBiologicalFennel

our positivity rate on tests is currently around 3.9%, in Germany and France is is close to 7%

Wow. Positivity rate is around 18% in my area of Wales (not one of the top affected areas BTW), finally going down after being over 20% through the Summer.

Positivity rates are irrelevant. Too many confounding factors: test availability, propensity of people in the local or national area to get tested for economic or social or cultural reasons etc etc.

The only stats that are comparable internationally really are hospitalisations/ capita (between developed countries) and deaths/ capita for all countries.

God, I’d love that tax policy. Seems completely fair to me. And to make it even fairer I’d say that Leavers should get first dibs on all the Brexit benefits, but they should also have to pay the Brexit costs.