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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not get DS vaccinated

311 replies

Florence282 · 06/10/2021 08:42

I think this probably not allowed but I'm very interested to see what the general population thinks about vaccinating our DC. DS is 12 and after a tonne of research we've decided not to vaccinate. Other mums in the school are struggling to make a decision.

Yanbu=no to the vaccine
Yabu=yes to the vaccine

OP posts:
Belladonna12 · 06/10/2021 18:24

@Comedycook

The vaccine doesn't work very well on the immunsuppressed though. That's 500,000 people you think should stay indoors including some children

And there's always been viruses and contagious illnesses which are considered a threat to those people.

Not all threats are equal. The threat from covid is much higher to immunosuppressed people than anything else I can think of at the moment in the UK given how prevalent, contagious and deadly it can be. Why do you think immunusuppressed people have had to shield for the last 18 months?!
Witchcraftandhokum · 06/10/2021 18:31

A quick scan of the forms I took in from my students last week showed about a 2/3 take up. I quietly judged the parents who had not consented, but we have a specialist provision attached to school which has a number of immuno-supressed students and at least one member of staff who has a serious illness and is very vulnerable.

Belladonna12 · 06/10/2021 18:32

[quote trumpisagit]@Belladonna12 but it's not a simple choice (as you are implying) between having the vaccine and having covid.

My children could be vaccinated at school on a specific date in November. There are very small risks involved (slightly bigger for boys). They can still catch covid ( approx 50% less likely than if they were unvaccinated).

If not vaccinated they could catch covid at some unspecified date in the future, or might not.
They are likely to already have had covid, although have never tested positive (many of their friends and children they sit next to at school have) . Possibly they have gained some natural immunity.

They may get covid at all.

It is not a simple either/or. [/quote]
It is as simple as either (or perhaps both) now. You are deluded if you think that they won't catch covid if they are not vaccinated and haven't already had it. It is ripping through schools at the moment. There are no strategies to prevent transmision in schools. They don't even have to isolate if everyone else in their family has it.

Florence282 · 06/10/2021 18:32

AmaryllisNightAndDay there's nearly 300 replies on this thread. I haven't 'ignored' your comment I simply haven't got time to reply to them all. Don't make assumptions.

OP posts:
whymewhyme · 06/10/2021 18:32

You are not being unreasonable.

whymewhyme · 06/10/2021 18:35

@tttigress

Your child is unlikely to get seriously ill from Covid, so I think you have made the correct decision.
Absolutely 💯
whymewhyme · 06/10/2021 18:36

ComedyCook.....bore off!

MarshaBradyo · 06/10/2021 18:38

It is as simple as either (or perhaps both) now. You are deluded if you think that they won't catch covid if they are not vaccinated and haven't already had it. It is ripping through schools at the moment. There are no strategies to prevent transmision in schools. They don't even have to isolate if everyone else in their family has it.

This is why I think people are overstating the it’s unfair that the unvaccinated will be spared disruption due to others vaccinating. It’s likely they will isolate (if it’s not asymptomatic) at some point. Still likely they will anyway if vaccinated and get symptoms. And haven’t had it yet.

It’s still an individual decision for each person

Waxonwaxoff0 · 06/10/2021 18:42

@Belladonna12 they'll probably catch Covid even if they get vaccinated. I caught Covid after I was vaccinated.

trumpisagit · 06/10/2021 18:42

@Belladonna12
Yes possibly most school children who haven't had covid will do so this winter.

There is still a lot of unknowns, plus the fact that many children will be asymptomatic.

I am not worried about my children catching covid.

I don't think the balance of risk tips in favour of the vaccine for 12-16 year olds.

I also think it's a private medical decision and no one should be pressuring parents to take up the offer.

I believe Chris Whitty said similar.

Awalkintime · 06/10/2021 18:48

Given the impact I have seen covid have on children I would say the vaccine is worth it.

tedsletterofthelaw · 06/10/2021 18:54

I don't think the benefits of the vaccine for children outweigh the potential risk of having a vaccine.

Children (unless CEV) are very unlikely to suffer from severe illness from covid and while the vaccine risks are minuscule, I don't think they are worth taking.

My DC are much younger so not really a concern for me but I can see why many parents of 12-15yo are feeling conflicted.

I'm double vaxxed by the way and all my children have had the usual childhood vaccines.

Maray1967 · 06/10/2021 19:00

The vaccine is definitely worth it. My son is quite poorly today - whichever strain this is has hit a lot harder than the one his brother who is a student had last year - he only noticed later that his sense of smell had gone for a week or two.
My son being ill is seriously messing us around in terms of work. He has had dizziness which is now one of the symptoms so he can’t even walk to the bathroom on his own. One of us needs to be here with him. The way he looks now, I’m not sure he will be back to school in a week’s time. So he will probably miss a fortnight of school because this excuse for a government did not organise vaccines for 12-15 years old more quickly.

To those of you who are seriously considering not vaccinating your teenagers, for gods sake please think again.

Staffy1 · 06/10/2021 19:10

@Belladonna12

My DC are are over 16 and have had it. Based on their experiences and that of their friends, if my child was 12 I would certainly let them have it.

The people arguing that we don't know about long-term effects don't seem to be getting the point that there is no entirely risk-free option with this virus as it is so infectious. They can either have a vaccine or they can have Covid. Why are you so worried about the long-term effects of a vaccine which causes a bit of a sore arm and is then washed out the body versus a virus that will quite possibly cause your child to be in bed for a couple of weeks and has killed many people? There is a very small risk of myocarditis with the vaccine but Covid can cause that too. A child recently died of myocarditis in the UK following Covid whereas all cases of myocarditis following vaccination have been mild.

Have all cases been mild? I read “most”.
Belladonna12 · 06/10/2021 19:16

[quote Waxonwaxoff0]@Belladonna12 they'll probably catch Covid even if they get vaccinated. I caught Covid after I was vaccinated.[/quote]
I'm not so sure that they will get it anyway. Among DC friends only the unvaccinated are getting it this term. The ones who are vaccinated are not catching it despite close contact with symptomatic people. Maybe it is because their immune systems are better or because vaccination was more recent but the efficacy seems very high, anecdotally, among teenagers.

MarshaBradyo · 06/10/2021 19:20

I'm not so sure that they will get it anyway. Among DC friends only the unvaccinated are getting it this term. The ones who are vaccinated are not catching it despite close contact with symptomatic people. Maybe it is because their immune systems are better or because vaccination was more recent but the efficacy seems very high, anecdotally, among teenagers.

Anecdotally not here. But one factor was virus in school in June and year 11 finished so missed that. They seem to be a group that hasn’t had it to a great extent yet. - where he is.

But also 30,000 infections prevented isn’t that high? Not sure how many in age group

Personally the strongest reason here would be avoiding worst of Covid but again it’s rarer for dc and up to individuals

Belladonna12 · 06/10/2021 19:22

@tedsletterofthelaw

I don't think the benefits of the vaccine for children outweigh the potential risk of having a vaccine.

Children (unless CEV) are very unlikely to suffer from severe illness from covid and while the vaccine risks are minuscule, I don't think they are worth taking.

My DC are much younger so not really a concern for me but I can see why many parents of 12-15yo are feeling conflicted.

I'm double vaxxed by the way and all my children have had the usual childhood vaccines.

If vaccine risks are "miniscule" but severe covid just "very unlikely" why do you think the vaccine is too big a risk, given it's one or the other now.
LuaDipa · 06/10/2021 21:24

@Theredjellybean

I'm. Not a teacher.. I'm a GP, and clinical lead for the vaccination programme. Its my job to try and encourage a dialogue between parents who won't give consent and young people who want the vaccine and who I deem gilick competent. Legally I can give it without the bother of trying to discuss it further with the parents or legal guardians but it is much better to try to find common ground and involve them. Perhaps read what I wrote first... And frankly I'm stunned by the way parents on here continue to persist in the belief that they and only they have "rights" over medical decisions relating to their children. Children are not your possessions, they are seen as independent entities
Absolutely agree with this.

My ds will be having the vaccine because he has chosen to have the vaccine. Dd won’t be for the same reason. I wish she would change her mind but at 13 it’s not my place to force her, not that I could. It’s their choice and their right to decide, however much we as parents might disagree.

CharleyMarley · 06/10/2021 22:00

@Florence282

Belladonna12 I've not once said I'm more knowledgeable than the experts, I'm clearly not, I'm just a mum with a scientific background trying to make the right decision for my child. I'm not arrogant either and I'm not here to impress anyone. I'm just interested in other people's opinions. I'm not pushing my opinions on others. I'm respectfully answering a few questions that I've had. If you want a heated debate on this you're not going to get it from me. It seems like this is something you're passionate about and I respect that.
I am really sorry but a degree in biology isn't a "background in science". It's simply a degree in biology which is fairly easy to get. And I say that as someone with a PhD in a related field and work in vaccines (not COVID). And I still don't feel I can out-research the experts. Although I can have a well-educated view.

Everyone I know is vaccinating their kids. But we are all medics or scientists. So we understand the data. People are scared of new vaccines for kids. It's understandable. But honestly most have misunderstood the JVCI's view (they didn't say the vaccine wasn't worth the risk they said they couldn't comment on other risk/benefit ratios like impact of COVID education), and the myocarditis is more frequently associated with COVID than the vaccine (6x) and is often worse.

CharleyMarley · 06/10/2021 22:04

@edwinbear

YANBU OP. DS turned 12 end of August so only just 12 as well. DH and I are double jabbed, DS will have HPV and flu vaccines, DD (9) will have flu. Both have had all childhood immunisations.

I've just declined consent for DS to have the Covid vaccine because of the increased risk of myocarditis in boys - I would make a different decision for DD if she was old enough to have it. DS is an elite athlete in a CV intensive sport, his training/competitive schedule is between 15-20 hours a week and I'm not prepared to take any risks with his heart. He's had 3 periods of self isolation due to close contact so far, there are a number of his close school friends who have tested positive over the last few weeks. None of his peers have had any symptoms other than a slight sore throat and runny nose, and given he plays a full contact sport with many of them, I suspect he's probably already had it and been asymptomatic (despite regularly testing negative with LFT's which clearly aren't terribly accurate).

For him, personally, the risks outweigh the benefits. I don't think it's black and white with children and it's a situation where families need to be allowed and respected to take a decision in their DC's best interests.

And yet you'll take the risk for him to catch COVID which has a greater risk (6x) of myocarditis in adolescent males than the vaccine and it is often more severe....
CharleyMarley · 06/10/2021 22:06

@HoppingPavlova

I don’t understand how people feel they can do more research and know more than the medical professionals who recommend vaccination.

Well, you’ve had JCVI tell you the benefit/risk doesn’t stack up for the average individual in this age population.

That is not what they said...

They said there was a marginal benefit but they weren't in a position to comment on other benefit/risks such as education...

CharleyMarley · 06/10/2021 22:13

@FreeBritnee

My thoughts when it comes to vaccines is could I live with myself if I’d said no to the vaccine and the child became seriously ill or even died as a result of my action. My answer is always no, I’d never forgive myself so I get the vaccine.
This
1dayatatime · 06/10/2021 22:24

@Jangle33

Fair enough but without a significant amount of the population vaccinated covid isn’t going away…
I don't know what you were led to believe on the Covid jab and I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you but Covid is not going away ever regardless of how many people have had the jab.

Currently 49 million have had at least the first and 45 million have had both.

TableFlowerss · 06/10/2021 22:25

[quote Wroxie]@TableFlowerss when my daughter was 16, we moved back to the states for a year. Her school had a blood drive and since she was under 18 it required me to sign a permission slip. There was a very small risk to her from this procedure - as outlined in the permission slip - probably similar to the risk of a covid jab. Maybe greater. I don't know exactly but it's definitely not risk free. It is, however, a good and moral thing to do which would help save others' lives and so I signed the permission slip. Would you not? Do you think that because someone is under 18 that the most infinitesimal chance of the possibility of risk to them is more important than real and measurable risk to others? I don't. And I think that teaching your children to make the right choice in these situations through your encouragement, is going to serve them far better in life than teaching them that it's OK if other people die as long as you are comfortable and don't have to feel anxious. Because that's all this is - to be very, very clear, the children in question are FAR more likely to die from actual covid, caught while unvaccinated, than they are from the vaccine.[/quote]
to be very, very clear, the children in question are FAR more likely to die from actual covid, caught while unvaccinated, than they are from the vaccine

No they’re not likely to FAR more likely to die of covid. That’s the whole point, it’s like 0.0001% chance of a child dying of covid, so to vaccinate them is not to protect them, as some are trying to pass off, it’s to protect others.

You’re entitled to your opinion, but people are entitled to do what they feel is best for their child.

On the topic of morality, I assume you would agree to yours and your families organs being donated after death? I assume you think it’s morally wrong for people to not agree to give up donate their organs?

I would say that’s morally wrong but plenty of people don’t care.

TableFlowerss · 06/10/2021 22:26

@Comedycook

Fuck that, quite frankly. It's not my child's responsibility to make adults feel safer

Exactly. All adults have now had the chance to be double jabbed. If you are still worried, I'm afraid the onus is now on you to stay at home.

Exactly this