To not get DS vaccinated

[Florence282]

I think this probably not allowed but I'm very interested to see what the general population thinks about vaccinating our DC. DS is 12 and after a tonne of research we've decided not to vaccinate. Other mums in the school are struggling to make a decision.

Yanbu=no to the vaccine
Yabu=yes to the vaccine

Well adults based on the UK definition of such. I have no idea what it is in New York!

There is a very, very nasty strain of individualism which is taking over which holds that whatever I can do to avoid the very mildest of inconvenience and the merest hint of risk to me and mine is not only "allowed" but should be praised. People will die because people like OP choose not to vaccinate their children- I am not going to sit here and pat her on the back for her strong stand. She's selfish and anti-social and she is raising children with selfish and anti-social values. She can do what she want but she should at least have the decency to be ashamed of herself

I got the vaccine as I felt it was for the greater good. I have never cared about covid on a personal level. I've never been worried. But I saw getting vaccinated as part of a bigger picture and for the good of society.

When it comes to my DC, I put them as individuals above society as a whole...most parents do.

For those of you who won't be getting/ letting children be vaccinated, aren't you worried about other aspects, not just medical.

I worry that in months/ years to come, say for example there is a school trip, exchange program whatever it may be - i worry that those who haven't been vaccinated will be overlooked, or not allowed to go.

I think as well as that a lot of parents will change their mind when they realise that they can't have their holidays abroad anymore as the kids haven't been vaccinated.

I think almost everybody will put their perceived child's best interests first so calling people selfish isn't very helpful. However I do think people need to consider the risks of covid for their child just as much as the risk of being vaccinated because it's one or the other now.

Also, anyone who thinks they won't give the vaccination without signed consent if the child wants it is deluded. Your children are not your property and they won't thank you if you try to insist that they don't have the vaccine even if they want it if they are then very ill and their friends are all fine because they had the vaccine.

@trumpisagit what really is the risk to the child though? It's a tiny risk, much much smaller for a healthy than even the risk to that same child if they got covid while unvaccinated! So it's not just a selfish decision, but a stupid one. So, yes, while I don't think that ANYONE should be forced to take any medical treatment that they don't want, I do think that in this case, the risk posed to society by unvaccinated children is greater than the risk of vaccinating those children- by a LOT- and that a bit of social pressure and clarity for parents to make the sensible and moral choice here should indeed be the policy.

@Comedycook

There is a very, very nasty strain of individualism which is taking over which holds that whatever I can do to avoid the very mildest of inconvenience and the merest hint of risk to me and mine is not only "allowed" but should be praised. People will die because people like OP choose not to vaccinate their children- I am not going to sit here and pat her on the back for her strong stand. She's selfish and anti-social and she is raising children with selfish and anti-social values. She can do what she want but she should at least have the decency to be ashamed of herself

I got the vaccine as I felt it was for the greater good. I have never cared about covid on a personal level. I've never been worried. But I saw getting vaccinated as part of a bigger picture and for the good of society.

When it comes to my DC, I put them as individuals above society as a whole...most parents do.

Absolutely this! 👏👏

@Seriously79

For those of you who won't be getting/ letting children be vaccinated, aren't you worried about other aspects, not just medical.

I worry that in months/ years to come, say for example there is a school trip, exchange program whatever it may be - i worry that those who haven't been vaccinated will be overlooked, or not allowed to go.

I think as well as that a lot of parents will change their mind when they realise that they can't have their holidays abroad anymore as the kids haven't been vaccinated.

Will one dose of a vaccine be sufficient enough to be classed as "fully vaccinated" by most countries?

@Seriously79 a single vaccine this Autumn (or lack thereof) will not make any difference to availability of places on school trips "in months or years ahead".

Also declining the vaccine at 12, doesn't mean that they won't be able to have it in the future.

We are saying no, for now, not forever.

You have asked for opinions but only like the ones agreeing with you and you are ignoring the facts that are pro vaccination for children.
Fwit,yes I think you should.

I think some people on this thread would benefit from looking up the definition of the word selfish. It can not be applied to a parent doing what they feel is best for their child.

KarmaStar not at all. I agree with a lot of what posters who are vaccinating their DC have said and have not ignored any of the facts at all.

[quote Wroxie]@trumpisagit what really is the risk to the child though? It's a tiny risk, much much smaller for a healthy than even the risk to that same child if they got covid while unvaccinated! So it's not just a selfish decision, but a stupid one. So, yes, while I don't think that ANYONE should be forced to take any medical treatment that they don't want, I do think that in this case, the risk posed to society by unvaccinated children is greater than the risk of vaccinating those children- by a LOT- and that a bit of social pressure and clarity for parents to make the sensible and moral choice here should indeed be the policy.[/quote]
I’m very glad we’re not following this approach for children.

But also I don’t think societal pressure works if it’s just others telling people they are selfish. Probably puts them off.

[quote Wroxie]@trumpisagit what really is the risk to the child though? It's a tiny risk, much much smaller for a healthy than even the risk to that same child if they got covid while unvaccinated! So it's not just a selfish decision, but a stupid one. So, yes, while I don't think that ANYONE should be forced to take any medical treatment that they don't want, I do think that in this case, the risk posed to society by unvaccinated children is greater than the risk of vaccinating those children- by a LOT- and that a bit of social pressure and clarity for parents to make the sensible and moral choice here should indeed be the policy.[/quote]
Another example of someone questioning the morality of parents for choosing not to vaccinate the kids at the moment, because they think they should be vaccinated for the benefit of others…… ‘the risk posed to society by unvaccinated children is greater than the risk of vaccinating those children’

Trying to pressurise parents to make a decision for the benefit of other people, is morally wrong!

@TableFlowerss when my daughter was 16, we moved back to the states for a year. Her school had a blood drive and since she was under 18 it required me to sign a permission slip. There was a very small risk to her from this procedure - as outlined in the permission slip - probably similar to the risk of a covid jab. Maybe greater. I don't know exactly but it's definitely not risk free. It is, however, a good and moral thing to do which would help save others' lives and so I signed the permission slip. Would you not? Do you think that because someone is under 18 that the most infinitesimal chance of the possibility of risk to them is more important than real and measurable risk to others? I don't. And I think that teaching your children to make the right choice in these situations through your encouragement, is going to serve them far better in life than teaching them that it's OK if other people die as long as you are comfortable and don't have to feel anxious. Because that's all this is - to be very, very clear, the children in question are FAR more likely to die from actual covid, caught while unvaccinated, than they are from the vaccine.

[quote Wroxie]@trumpisagit what really is the risk to the child though? It's a tiny risk, much much smaller for a healthy than even the risk to that same child if they got covid while unvaccinated! So it's not just a selfish decision, but a stupid one. So, yes, while I don't think that ANYONE should be forced to take any medical treatment that they don't want, I do think that in this case, the risk posed to society by unvaccinated children is greater than the risk of vaccinating those children- by a LOT- and that a bit of social pressure and clarity for parents to make the sensible and moral choice here should indeed be the policy.[/quote]
Fuck that, quite frankly. It's not my child's responsibility to make adults feel safer.

Fuck that, quite frankly. It's not my child's responsibility to make adults feel safer

Exactly. All adults have now had the chance to be double jabbed. If you are still worried, I'm afraid the onus is now on you to stay at home.

Your child is unlikely to get seriously ill from Covid, so I think you have made the correct decision.

@tttigress

Your child is unlikely to get seriously ill from Covid, so I think you have made the correct decision.

They are unlikely to get seriously ill from the vaccine too.

@Comedycook

Fuck that, quite frankly. It's not my child's responsibility to make adults feel safer

Exactly. All adults have now had the chance to be double jabbed. If you are still worried, I'm afraid the onus is now on you to stay at home.

The vaccine doesn't work very well on the immunsuppressed though. That's 500,000 people you think should stay indoors including some children.

To be honest, I don’t feel vaccinations or any medical procedure should be presented as a moral issue. It isn’t.

Vaccinations should happen to benefit the person being vaccinated. It is wrong to try to coerce or guilt trip people into having an invasive procedure to benefit others.

It can not be applied to a parent doing what they feel is best for their child.

If a parent is doing what's best for their child at the expense of other people's children who are at the same risk as their own, then it is selfish in a particularly unpleasant way.

have not ignored any of the facts at all.

I have pointed out more than once that there are some reasons for getting your child vaccinated which benefit your own child (as well as everyone else's) The risk to your child's health has to be balanced against the benefit to your child's education. That's a benefit which the JCVI very clearly say that they did not take into account. That's a fact, and so far you do seem to have ignored it.

It is, however, a good and moral thing to do which would help save others' lives and so I signed the permission slip.

Depends whether you are relying on other people to do the scary thing so as to keep you (or your children) safe. We all share the risk of giving blood to share the benefit. Same with vaccination - it's fine to dither around until you have more information about vaccine safety but not if you're relying on other people's children being vaccinated to keep your child in class.

The vaccine doesn't work very well on the immunsuppressed though. That's 500,000 people you think should stay indoors including some children

And there's always been viruses and contagious illnesses which are considered a threat to those people.

But it's up to the child isn't it? They can over rule the parent's decision if they demonstrate they understand the choice they are making. I would have thought most 12 year olds uand older could do that.

@Belladonna12 but it's not a simple choice (as you are implying) between having the vaccine and having covid.

My children could be vaccinated at school on a specific date in November. There are very small risks involved (slightly bigger for boys). They can still catch covid ( approx 50% less likely than if they were unvaccinated).

If not vaccinated they could catch covid at some unspecified date in the future, or might not.
They are likely to already have had covid, although have never tested positive (many of their friends and children they sit next to at school have) . Possibly they have gained some natural immunity.

They may get covid at all.

It is not a simple either/or.

On the disruption issue

‘The CMOs said it was not possible to quantify with confidence to what extent vaccination would reduce school disruption.

But as part of the review they did release some modelling which, based on assumptions on uptake of the jab and spread of the virus, suggested 30,000 infections could be prevented in England between October and March.‘

Not sure how many will still be infected based on this and roughly half having had it. But I doubt vaccinated dc will do much to stop unvaccinated getting it. It’s too transmissible. Plus Ds vaccinated still had 10 days disruption as did his friends so not sure how much better that will be.

Mostly though the above means it’s still an individual decision, not to be guilt tripped or pressured. I’m pretty sure Chris Whitty said same - up to each person to decide.

The idea that anyone should be pressured isn’t right imo (and Ds had vaccine - for him though not adults)