If you are a mum looking after your kids day to day, did give realise you were a ‘SAHM’ before coming on MN?

[sangak]

It always strikes me, that MN always has much to say about so-called ‘SAHMs.’ But if you said ‘SAHM’ (pronouncing it as ‘Sarm’) in real-life, nobody would know what this is. I know many women who don’t work due to children / family, but not one of them would know they were ‘Sarms’ or even recognise what ‘SAHM’ stands for - or that it is even considered ‘a thing.’ Just seems weird that the whole debate on here is so removed from real life.

OP can you text a friend and ask if they consider themselves as a stay at home mum? I'm fascinated.

Maybe I am overthinking, but I do think there is a disconnect between MN and real life in this respect and sometimes it’s very odd indeed.

Are you saying that you never come across anyone socially who asks what you do for a living? And that if they do ask, "I'm a mum" is considered to be a full answer?

Surely you would say something that makes clear that you not in employment currently.... e.g. "what do you do?" / "I'm at home looking after the kids"

Regardless of phrasing, it's a normal topic of conversation. Even at running club etc, when you chat with people, what you do for a living crops up in conversation.

sangak what's more striking is the blinkered determination to believe that your own experience is the only real experience and anyone reporting different life experiences is somehow less real.

Depending on your inclinations you could find a philosophical world view or a psychiatric diagnosis to fit that approach... Perhaps nobody else is as real as you?

But it doesn’t matter if it’s a term they apply to themselves, they still are one. And it doesn’t matter what MN calls them, the debate about it would happen if they just called them ‘mums who don’t work’, as the concept would be the same.

I wonder if part of the issue here is that in discourse (if not in reality) until relatively recently SAHMs were viewed as the norm/default and so didn’t need a category. WOHMs (in the same discourse as ‘working mothers’ were the (imaginary) outliers who needed a special category.

So maybe it’s not unexpected that those mothers who don’t work outside the home find it more surprising to find themselves in a ‘category’ with a name, to distinguish them from working mothers/WOHMs (depending on which title you hate more.) Because for a couple of generations it was presented as the default in our culture, and you don’t always need a name for the cultural norm.

I also think it's relatively unusual not to work. Aside from the older generation, all the mums I know work outside the home, even if it's very part time.

There are various reasons it's debated about on MN and some of them are quite important. I find it odd that you'd see it as such a non-issue, considering how much difference it makes to one's day-to-day life either being at work or not, as well as potential difference to future earning potential, pension and independence in the event of divorce or loss of partner. It's a pretty important choice.

That's a good point. Often on MN it's mentioned in the context of a post about the division of labour in the home, or access to finances. Whether you are a SAHM or WOHM is very relevant in both cases.

“. It's a pretty important choice.“

Yes but it’s unique for every individual. Just as most working circumstances are unique for every individual.

Whether you work can have a massive impact on your life, so it's not something to dismiss and see as beneath your dignity to discuss. (Unless you are independently wealthy I guess)

@sangak

“. It's a pretty important choice.“

Yes but it’s unique for every individual. Just as most working circumstances are unique for every individual.

Some thing aren't unique.

Unless you are independently wealthy, making the decision not to work will have an impact on your financial independence and ability to exercise choices in life (e.g. to leave your husband if necessary). That's not to say it isn't a valid decision to make, but it's not an insignificant thing.

@CSJobseeker

I also think it's relatively unusual not to work. Aside from the older generation, all the mums I know work outside the home, even if it's very part time.

Depends where you live.

Rich enough that DHs money covers everything so why work / need to be home to facilitate DHs career OR Too poor to cover childcare outside of school hours and holidays and limited school hour jobs

I think the term SAHM or "stay at home mum" , if you don't like acronyms, is used a lot more generally in real life and society than "working mums" or WOHM.
I haven't rtft but I'm surprised that OP can speak on behalf of the many hundreds of mums she has come across that none would say they were SAHM (even if they were) and all would be quite bemused at any sort of debate around it.

Rich enough that DHs money covers everything so why work / need to be home to facilitate DHs career OR Too poor to cover childcare outside of school hours and holidays and limited school hour jobs

I live in commuterville where every other person seems to work in the city, finance or law. There are quite a lot of SAHMs with kids of all ages.

So @sangak are you and your friends totally unaware that there are discussions of merit regarding whether one works for a living or gives up work to look after the children all day?

This is th thread that keeps on giving 😂 I love how you’re doubling down on your position and acting like sarm is actually a thing.

Op it’s unusual to have never heard the term, to only really know women who don’t work and to never meet anyone new who would ask you about what you did for a living in fifteen years or to think that folks who see you with a child will assume you don’t work, like women who work never ever are with their kids during the day or do th school run.

@sangak

Maybe I am overthinking, but I do think there is a disconnect between MN and real life in this respect and sometimes it’s very odd indeed.

In my ‘real life’ there is no disconnect. Most women work in some capacity, and being a stay at home parent (or whatever you personally call it) is not the norm. I was at home with mine for a couple of years and honestly it was unusual where I am, and it was commented on. The discussion around SAHM’s is valid, as it can leave a woman vulnerable. And I say that as someone who was one.

You find it odd that there's a disconnect between MN and real life...?

@sangak

Maybe I am overthinking, but I do think there is a disconnect between MN and real life in this respect and sometimes it’s very odd indeed.

I think this is fair, there is in your life it seems you’ve been a sahm for many ,many years, stick to thr same social circle, seldom meet new people and socialise with other women who don’t work, and you even live in an area where women don’t work

As only twenty percent of mothers don’t work now, you can see how your very narrow social world is unusual and why you would have a disconnect, on many many thing?

Rich enough that DHs money covers everything so why work / need to be home to facilitate DHs career OR Too poor to cover childcare outside of school hours and holidays and limited school hour jobs

Yes, I agree that those tend to be the people who are most likely to sah, but the OP presumably falls into the latter group. If she was in the former category, she would almost certainly move in circles in which some women are committed to maintaining their careers, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

@AlexaShutUp

Rich enough that DHs money covers everything so why work / need to be home to facilitate DHs career OR Too poor to cover childcare outside of school hours and holidays and limited school hour jobs

Yes, I agree that those tend to be the people who are most likely to sah, but the OP presumably falls into the latter group. If she was in the former category, she would almost certainly move in circles in which some women are committed to maintaining their careers, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Good point. I'm sure lots of the Mom's at the school gate would just consider themselves Mom's. Some do work but pt nurse, carer, dinner lady, cleaner rather than doctor, lawyer, etc

Is my ‘social world’ any narrower than the next person’s? Possibly, but also possibly not. Who can say.

@sangak

Is my ‘social world’ any narrower than the next person’s? Possibly, but also possibly not. Who can say.

Well if all the women you know don't work and you never meet anyone new to do the "so what do you do for a living" then yes.

@sangak

Is my ‘social world’ any narrower than the next person’s? Possibly, but also possibly not. Who can say.

Well, we can only assume that it's very narrow on the basis of what you tell us. Definitely narrower than most from what you've said.

@sangak

Is my ‘social world’ any narrower than the next person’s? Possibly, but also possibly not. Who can say.

Well, it must be if the majority of women you know don’t work, as that isn’t representative of society.