2nd Met Police officer has been charged with rape

[Rinoachicken]

He worked in the same dept as WC.

It’s being very widely reported, except by the BBC.

AIBU to be sickened and wonder WHY the BBC are not reporting this?

Link: www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/03/metropolitan-police-officer-charged-rape-hertfordshire?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The stats:

For every false allegation of rape, there's 152 convictions of rape. And considering only 1% of rapes end in conviction, we can safely say that false allegation of rapes are not even nearly a societal problem.

Source: www.cps.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/legal_guidance/perverting-course-of-justice-march-2013.pdf

@vivainsomnia

I rather make no accusations than wrong ones.

What do you gain from it? Why not wait until the guy is convicted? It won't be long if it happens. Then you can make your point in all good conscience.

The guy in the article almost took his life because if people like you.

Yet you - yes YOU - are part of the reason rape convictions are so low.

Proud of yourself?

[quote StarfishDish]@Pumperthepumper The point is though that there are still false accusations made. False accusations that ruin lives![/quote]
Oh fuck off with that. Real allegations don't even ruin lives of rapists. It's why Mike Tyson is still wealthy and popular man.

[quote StarfishDish]@Pumperthepumper Then people can come forward once being convicted then. That way, people aren't having their lives ruined by false accusations![/quote]
HAHA!!

Less chance of conviction if fewer victims come forwards.

With your thinking, Jon Worbouys would still be raping women in his taxi. He was convicted because after the media reported he'd been charged, dozens more victims came forward

That is far more important than the negligible number of men falsely accused.

From Rape Crisis - debunking rape myths:

Myth: Women often lie about rape because they regret having sex with someone, or because they want attention.
Fact: Stories in the media can give the impression that women often lie about sexual violence. In fact, false allegations of rape are very rare. Most people who have been raped or experienced sexual violence or abuse never tell the police.

@vivainsomnia

Nobody believed me. My entire family thought I was 'making it up', and to this day it haunts me But this is totally different. Of course your family should have believed you and supported you. That's what families are for.

This completely different to large group of strangers firming an opinion, an opinion that spurs hatred for an entire group of people when that person hasn't yet been convicted, and that hatred is based on just what they know, that an accusation was made.

The two scenarios are completely different. I feel outraged for you that your loved ones were not there for you.

It's not different at all. It's a group of people disbelieving that poor poster. It's the culture and myth that women are liars before men are predators. It affects every single victim, man, woman, child, adult, when we assume someone is a liar before they tell the truth.

That is a myth YOU are perpetuating.

I'm so sad that, yet again, yet FUCKING again, a thread about women being victims of rape has descended into people harping "but what about the poor falsely accused".

When can we ever just fucking centre women.

You ought to be ashamed of yourselves

@mustlovegin

We're discussing the toxicity of the UK police as a class here

You can discuss it all you like.

'Toxicity as a class' does not exist though, no matter how long you keep on repeating it, and many will understandably get irritated and worried by the constant agitation against the police force.

What other characteristics do you think should be attributed to other groups 'as a class' BTW?

Horse shit.

You're seriously saying toxic cultures within organisations don't exist?

@mustlovegin

Male violence

So 'intersectionality' as you like to call it? What else? In what other ways do you find discriminating others 'as a class' is morally acceptable? As it is illegal, mind you

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 it's illegal to point out that men are violent?

@vivainsomnia

you're treating it as if they happen equally. They don't That's not what aim doing. It's what posters on a mission are opting to read. I'm not weighing one against the others.

I'm saying both are wrong. I'm saying people are entitled to a fair trial.

Nothing more than that however much some posters want to read more into it because they can't accept not everyone agrees with them.

How come when you hear someone has been burgled, no one ever says "But think of how many people a year are falsely accused of burglary. Thats wrong too"

When actually the same amount of people are falsely accused of burglary as they are rape.

Have a wee think about why only one of the two crimes focus equally on the falsely accused. What could it possibly be that makes people mention one and not the other? Answers on a postcard.

@vivainsomnia

How do you square that circle then? How do you believe women but still guarantee absolutely zero false accusations?

It's not the job of any stranger, including the police, to believe or disbelieve. They owe the public to investigate fairly and bias free. That's all.

Family members and friends owe the person to believe them.

Actually you're wrong, the police have a policy to believe victims

Family members and friends owe the person to believe them

Do they fuck.

If a friend was charged with rape I'm not such a numbskull that I'd think 'well he is my friend so he must be innocent'. Your have to be thick as fuck to actually take this stance.

Being charged would be enough for me to cut ties, same with a family member personally

@vivainsomnia

Well, good luck looking your children in the eye when they ask what you did to improve society and you say ‘well, I didn’t have an opinion, I didn’t want to judge rapists in the police I'll look my kids in the eye and remind them that they are not God, that they don't get to judge peoples guilt. That we are a judicial system for that and what I do for society is respect that system and let them do their job.

A judicial system that lets down 99% of rape victims? I won't be teaching my kids to rely on it!

To those denying institutional toxic cultures exists in the police, or even at all, let's try and simplify it.

Imagine you have a work WhatsApp group. Maybe you already have one. Imagine a colleague sent you a picture of them taking a selfie next to a dead body.

How would you feel? Shocked? Horrified? Would you report them? Call them out? The answer is probably yes! Because presumably you're a decent person with morals and you wouldn't find that funny or acceptable.

You also presumably wouldn't take that selfie yourself, for the same reasons above. And if you did, I imagine your colleagues would be horrified, right? They'd probably report you to the boss?

Two police officers actually did this. They sent a selfie of themselves with two dead sisters to their colleagues. They did this because they didn't have the same morals, fear of repercussions, and decency as you would. They thought it was funny - but most importantly, they knew that when their colleagues received this, they'd find it funny too and would do absolutely nothing about it but laugh.

Now, do you think it's a coincidence that so many people on the same WhatsApp group -From different backgrounds and walks of life with different humours and personalities - happen to have low morals and wouldn't, like you, report this, and also work for the same place?? Is it coincidence that so many vile people have congregated together in this group, or is it more likely that this the result of a toxic, immoral and dangerous workplace culture?

Horse shit.

You're seriously saying toxic cultures within organisations don't exist?

Horse shit indeed, when even some constabularies within that organization accept and acknowledge that they exist, and claim they want to take steps to address it.

There are no words in the English language that are adequate to express my contempt for these apologists.

One of the biggest obstacles to resolving the culture is the hierarchy. Junior officers dont feel able to call out senior officers (whether by rank or years). They fear becoming isolated, vulnerable.

Develop a culture where it is possible to call out smaller breaches of conduct without fear and everybody wins. Offensive 'banter' and practical jokes become unacceptable. The people who persist stand out and should then face meaningful disciplinary action.

It doesnt need root and branch reform. What it needs is senior officers having the courage to do it and face their own shortcomings. It means senior officers accepting that they can also be openly criticised by junior officers if their own conduct falls short.

Speaking of the officers who took selfies with the dead bodies of the sisters (whose murderer hasn't been found yet BTW) - Deniz Jaffer and Jamie Lewis - their plea hearing trial was postponed in July with no further fixed date and I can't find anything more reported. Did they get sentenced??

@mustlovegin

I agree that she should have started another thread to discuss the issue

Anyone is allowed to contribute to any thread. Are you suggesting that a wife/mother's concerns don't matter?

The thought censors are out in force today it seems

Agreed.

@AlternativePerspective

20 seconds on BBC London news this morning what do you want them to say?

As he’s been charged the media are prohibited from reporting anything more than the fact he has been arrested and his name if it’s been made public. Nothing else.

Doing so is breaking the law and is contempt of court. As is this thread and will likely have to be deleted.

This. The comment shows the level of reasoning on here.

This is a great article entitled Wayne Couzens is a not an anomaly.

I suggest the apologists read it, it summarises very well how rife this toxic culture is within the Met police

tribunemag.co.uk/2021/10/wayne-couzens-is-not-an-anomaly/

@YourFinestPantaloons

Speaking of the officers who took selfies with the dead bodies of the sisters (whose murderer hasn't been found yet BTW) - Deniz Jaffer and Jamie Lewis - their plea hearing trial was postponed in July with no further fixed date and I can't find anything more reported. Did they get sentenced??

Danyal Hussein was convicted of the sisters’ murder over the summer.

@YourFinestPantaloons The murderer of the two sisters was found and convicted. His name is Danyal Hussein.

Not sure about the two officers though. They were charged with misconduct and suspended but not sure what has happened since.

Oh I do apologise! I kept an eye on the case but somehow never heard of him being convicted!

Re some comments made earlier:

-WC was allegedly known as “the rapist” in CNC and not the met and CNC say they have no evidence of this. I’m interested where this information has come from as it was in all the papers. Maybe an ex-employee?

-He wasn’t vetted properly when he joined the met - this was stated in the press. They were in a rush to recruit. Be interesting to know what they didn’t do.

-The met wouldn’t have known he was a police officer when he was named via DVLA checks as a suspect for the A20 exposure so I don’t see how his colleagues would’ve known as has been suggested unless I’ve missed something in the press.

I also don’t know how the Met plan to check officers’ social media. Only what is public is vettable.

Point I am making is how can you vet people? Who decides what “attitude” is correct? What is “offensive” is subjective. I find porn offensive but it’s not illegal. A police officer can like porn if he wants. He can be anti-same sex marriage if he wants or believe that a woman’s place is in the home. Plenty of men think this.

seeing as the statistics tell us false rape allegations are extremely rare, but rape convictions are low

You cannot use statistics to ascertain whether any individual is guilty or not