Cultural appropriation...how bad is it?

[malificent7]

So Rhianna is under fire for braiding white model's hair. What if a black model wanted to straighten and bleach her hair?
I love african wax print fabric but don't want to be accused of cultural appropriation if i wear a bit of it. I also own sari fabric clothes.

Aibu to ask mn who may or may not be from different ethnic backgrounds would they consider Rhianna or my behaviour inappropriate and what constitutes real cultural appropriation?

This is not a racist thread as dd is mixed race.

@DingleyDel

Do you really think black women would be looking at you seeing appropriation rather than just someone doing a sensible style for their hair type?

Yes. Obviously I wouldn’t be making money but it’s really never been acceptable in my life time (if ever) for white people to braid their hair in black styles.

The thing is that this is subjective. It’s not acceptable to you. It’s not acceptable to some black people. Fact is, anyone can wear their hair as they choose since it isn’t illegal. Who decides what is “acceptable”?

If you find it unacceptable don’t do it -isn’t this what keyboard warriors like to say (seen it a lot on here re:abortion and surrogacy)?

@YourFinestPantaloons

I'm also very much in the "just fucking listen" camp. If POC en masse are telling us cultural appropriation is damaging, how about we listen to them? Would that be so hard?

Are they though? I remember there was an American teenager who wore a traditional Chinese dress to a prom. Plenty of white activists were accusing the poor girl of cultural misappropriation but when the supposed victims of this (Chinese people) were actually asked what they thought, they said that actually they were delighted that she found their culture beautiful.

‘Siameasy’ I did say in my original post that some black people find it offensive , I would never generalise to all. But that should be enough to not do it.

Is there any POC on this thread who is saying they have an issue with while people wearing their clothes, braiding hair etc..?

I think so far I’ve seen people saying it was ok. (Unless I’ve missed a post)

Shall we listen to them instead of splitting hair in two between ourselves?

I’ll start getting worked up about cultural appropriation when men stop doing gender appropriation and shoving drag onto every prime time channel.

@maddening

I don't think that Africa is the only origin of braiding hair.

Correct, Iron Age fossils in Northern Europe show evidence of hair braiding. It is a practice which has taken place for thousands of years all over the world.

@DingleyDel

‘Siameasy’ I did say in my original post that some black people find it offensive , I would never generalise to all. But that should be enough to not do it.

But why “should that be enough”? Some black people may think it’s positively brilliant that white people may wish to wear black hair styles. Do their opinions not count, should they also not be enough? This is a matter of correct and incorrect opinions. Of course, objectively, there are no such things.

How is wearing a cheong sam to prom "cultural appropriation "? That's the sort of thing that makes people roll their eyes in disgust

@DingleyDel

‘Siameasy’ I did say in my original post that some black people find it offensive , I would never generalise to all. But that should be enough to not do it.

So, just to clarify, black people who don't say what you think they should say don't matter to you? Do you make all your decisions based on your perception of what the 'right kind' of black people think?

Why can't you make your own mind up what you think and act accordingly?

I guess its bad taste if you take religious or otherwise sacred sybols and turn them into scheap fashion. But hairstyles? Give it a rest.

I'm more bothered how people mess up ethnic foods though. If you want to make a disgusting muck in your own kitchen, you're welcome. But don't put mayonnaise on sushi and call it Japanese.

@BeenThruMoreThanALilBit

Really? There are plenty of POC on the beaches of Spain happy to charge (mainly) white girls to braid their hair.

This is so lacking in humanity it’s gross. Do you not understand that these people, who will have been bottom of the rung in Algeria and Morocco (because of the extreme darkness of their skin, in part) and fled north in the hope of better prospects, are obliged to sell a part of their heritage, their history, a fibre of their identity, for a few euros apiece? Do you think this is a chosen career? How can you in any way consider them to be as equal to you as to pass such a callous remark?

Are they also obliged or is it also part of their heritage to flog fake French fashion goods to those same gullible tourists? Get real. Those Algerians and Moroccans you are referring to are trying to make money. They’re not going home and weeping about how they had no choice but to prostitute their culture; they’re supplying a demand. The same way any other business works.

If you want to take it to extremes, you could argue that they’re appropriating French culture by producing cheap, fake and inferior quality designer goods.

How about ... using Chinese characters as tattoos if you aren't Chinese?
I think that the Chinese had the last laugh when people end up with tattoos which translate as "Illiterate Foreigner", "Fat Dumb American", "Translator Server Error", "Circumcised Squirrel", "I don't speak this language", or "Goldfish Man" (the last is a term used for sleazy creeps).

Apparently Chinese tattooists hate this sort of thing but revenge is permanent!

I am white and I had my hair braided on holiday when I was a teenager. Came home and was racially abused by a group of black girls in London. Most terrifying thing I’ve ever been through.

i’m a middle-aged white woman with dreadlocks, but that’s because i’m a terrible old crusty with difficult hair. i’m aware that white people with dreads are generally reviled but they’re historically a pretty widespread thing amongst many different cultures, including European ones.

also i love them and they’re not going anywhere.

Correct, Iron Age fossils in Northern Europe show evidence of hair braiding. It is a practice which has taken place for thousands of years all over the world.

Clearly appropriated from the Great rift valley during the migration north 2 million years ago.

@DdraigGoch

How about ... using Chinese characters as tattoos if you aren't Chinese? I think that the Chinese had the last laugh when people end up with tattoos which translate as "Illiterate Foreigner", "Fat Dumb American", "Translator Server Error", "Circumcised Squirrel", "I don't speak this language", or "Goldfish Man" (the last is a term used for sleazy creeps).

Apparently Chinese tattooists hate this sort of thing but revenge is permanent!

Haven't there been countless things like this of young men (predominantly) getting tattoos which ostensibly mean 'Strength' or 'Brave' but turn out to mean Egg fried rice! It's actually wild!

@Iamnotminterested

There is a white, dread-locked young man who sings Bob Marley songs in a thick Jamaican accent outside the Arndale Centre in Manchester.

Maybe he's Jamaican. There are White people there too you know. With the local accent & everything.

I was at a “do” and of the school mums (she’s from Ghana) offered to do one of her DD’s friend’s (European) hair in the future. Should the Ghanaian lady be cancelled?

A little girl I know who has one black grandparent, so father mixed race, Mother white currently has cane rows. Is that allowed? Who decides?! How do you answer without being racist?

Do you not understand that these people, who will have been bottom of the rung in Algeria and Morocco (because of the extreme darkness of their skin, in part) and fled north in the hope of better prospects, are obliged to sell a part of their heritage, their history, a fibre of their identity, for a few euros apiece? Do you think this is a chosen career?

For those looking to make a couple of Euros doing braids or henna tattoos, its the least consern about how first worlders feel about heritage.

So, just to clarify, black people who don't say what you think they should say don't matter to you? Do you make all your decisions based on your perception of what the 'right kind' of black people think?

This all seems like a lot of mental gymnastics. Tbh I have never known or seen a black person who says they think white braids are acceptable, let alone ‘great’, and I discuss hair a lot with mixed race friends because we have very similar hair type. There are times when the idea of ‘cultural appropriation’ are taken to extremes by the ultra woke (the Ed Sheehan thing would be an example) but white people not adopting black hair styles hair is a fairly mainstream viewpoint now, at least in my circles. Offending one black person wouldn’t justify me having a hairstyle for my convenience.

I've seen a post on facebook of someone with a tattoo in Irish, which they claimed said "you will always be in my heart", but actually said "An bhfuil cead agam dul go dtí an leithreas", which everyone in Ireland knows means "do I have permission to go to the toilet?".

I personally have no style, so I don’t ‘appropriate’ any other styles. I’m white, Scottish, middle aged, and tbh I dress accordingly.

Where dies cultural appropriation stop? If it applies to dress or hairstyle, does it also apply to cooking, music, art? Should we only ever reproduce the food, music, crafts that our own ‘tribe’ produced? What about (sorry) those of us that move country or continent? Are we allowed to adopt new habits / or must we take our old ones with us wherever we go?

@LookingGlassMilk

I've seen a post on facebook of someone with a tattoo in Irish, which they claimed said "you will always be in my heart", but actually said "An bhfuil cead agam dul go dtí an leithreas", which everyone in Ireland knows means "do I have permission to go to the toilet?".

🤣

@Siameasy

I was at a “do” and of the school mums (she’s from Ghana) offered to do one of her DD’s friend’s (European) hair in the future. Should the Ghanaian lady be cancelled?

A little girl I know who has one black grandparent, so father mixed race, Mother white currently has cane rows. Is that allowed? Who decides?! How do you answer without being racist?

I used to live in West Africa & was forever having women want to braid my hair. They were much happier & thought ai looked much better with my hair done & dressed in cloth. This was very much the instigation of black women. Not mine. Were they wrong?

I used to live in West Africa & was forever having women want to braid my hair. They were much happier & thought ai looked much better with my hair done & dressed in cloth. This was very much the instigation of black women. Not mine. Were they wrong? hmm*

Do you mind if I ask where in West Africa?