Cultural appropriation...how bad is it?

[malificent7]

So Rhianna is under fire for braiding white model's hair. What if a black model wanted to straighten and bleach her hair?
I love african wax print fabric but don't want to be accused of cultural appropriation if i wear a bit of it. I also own sari fabric clothes.

Aibu to ask mn who may or may not be from different ethnic backgrounds would they consider Rhianna or my behaviour inappropriate and what constitutes real cultural appropriation?

This is not a racist thread as dd is mixed race.

I mean it’s not that hard for white people to just not wear their hair in braids is it? I have incredibly frizzy hair and it would solve a multitude of problems for me but I’d never consider it because lots of black people find it offensive for white people to braid their hair, end of argument. Even worse when people are profiting off it, blackfishing is a big thing.

I think it’s harder to define cultural appropriation when people are actually from the culture they are supposed to be appropriating. In this case obviously Rihanna is a black woman so surely it’s up to her (or more likely her management) how her models appear. I also remember reading a ridiculous article (in a well known publication) about how Ed Sheehan was ‘appropriating’ Irish music…his father is Irish! Is he not allowed a homage?

@beastlyslumber You reminded me of Chelsea handler who said something similar to 50 cents. I had to look it up to confirm because I don't pay much attention to social media and entertainers. Here's the link.

Interestingly, something she said about 50cents "influencing and entire swath of people" reminded me of something someone said on the feminism sex and gender board about Kemi Badenoch influencing people. I think some of these people sing from the same hymnsheet.

www.themix.net/2020/10/chelsea-handler-launches-racist-attack-on-50-cent-over-trump-support-i-had-to-remind-him-hes-black/

@Iamnotminterested

There is a white, dread-locked young man who sings Bob Marley songs in a thick Jamaican accent outside the Arndale Centre in Manchester.

A somewhat local Chet Hanks?

I've worn my hair in a crown of braids most of my life, as did my mother and my grandmother.
I can't see how that would bother anyone.

I’m south Asian and honestly I think cultural appropriation has been twisted to suit every Tom, dick and Harry’s narrative.

I personally love seeing people of different races wearing Pakistani/Indian clothes.
When my grandfather came to the uk he stopped wearing traditional clothes and stuck to western clothes. Is that considered cultural appropriation too? Where do we draw the line? I think it’s fucking bonkers

I just meant don't buy it from Primark..

Which is all great but it is becoming increasingly evident some people will just make a lazy judgement call in their rush to seek offence on someone else's behalf. My Ashanti print shirt was gifted to me by my Ashanti coworkers, I like to think I have a better understanding of Ghanian culture then most. But that does not matter does it, for some, I'm a white dude in a West African print shirt taking the piss. Do you honestly think any nuance or line of enquiry would be opened to better understand why I was wearing that shirt. Of course not, I must have just blindly picked it up down Goldhawk Road because it was nice.

@GoOnDoAnASEyeroll OMG imagine saying "I had to remind him he's black" about a black person and thinking you're the anti-racist.

Unbelievable.

It was disgusting. Know your place black man and do what is expected of you. This is what some black people are also perpetuating. But it's others who need healing. Couldn't be funnier.

@DingleyDel

I mean it’s not that hard for white people to just not wear their hair in braids is it? I have incredibly frizzy hair and it would solve a multitude of problems for me but I’d never consider it because lots of black people find it offensive for white people to braid their hair, end of argument. Even worse when people are profiting off it, blackfishing is a big thing.

I think it’s harder to define cultural appropriation when people are actually from the culture they are supposed to be appropriating. In this case obviously Rihanna is a black woman so surely it’s up to her (or more likely her management) how her models appear. I also remember reading a ridiculous article (in a well known publication) about how Ed Sheehan was ‘appropriating’ Irish music…his father is Irish! Is he not allowed a homage?

Your not braiding your hair if it would genuinely ‘solve a multitude of problems’ for you just shows how bonkers the whole thing has become.

Do you really think black women would be looking at you seeing appropriation rather than just someone doing a sensible style for their hair type? It’s not like you would be making money out of or disrespecting their style.

@Siameasy

I’ve often wondered if it is considered inappropriate by the online thought police to wear a headscarf as I have shit hair and in any case, I think they look elegant.

Westerners used to wear headscarves, you can see this in a lot of black and white movies

[quote GoOnDoAnASEyeroll]@beastlyslumber You reminded me of Chelsea handler who said something similar to 50 cents. I had to look it up to confirm because I don't pay much attention to social media and entertainers. Here's the link.

Interestingly, something she said about 50cents "influencing and entire swath of people" reminded me of something someone said on the feminism sex and gender board about Kemi Badenoch influencing people. I think some of these people sing from the same hymnsheet.

www.themix.net/2020/10/chelsea-handler-launches-racist-attack-on-50-cent-over-trump-support-i-had-to-remind-him-hes-black/[/quote]
God there’s a lot about that I dislike. The arrogance of CH thinking she knows better than him and can tell him what to think.

Do you really think black women would be looking at you seeing appropriation rather than just someone doing a sensible style for their hair type?

Yes. Obviously I wouldn’t be making money but it’s really never been acceptable in my life time (if ever) for white people to braid their hair in black styles.

Cultural appropriation isn't even a thing for African people....or at least african people i have spoken to....they laughed at it being nonsense. But to black Americans and black British its a thing. Go figure.....

@VladmirsPoutine

My 17 year-old daughter was aghast. We guessed he was actually Lee from Salford.

Great Username BTW.

I'm a WOC.

I find that around me it's white people, so called allies, who create a fuss around cultural appropriation and who are indignant on our behalf, when most of my poc friends and family couldn't care less. I find this insulting and infantilising tbh. If we care enough we can say it for ourselves.

My race is a part of who I am, but it's not the only thing that defines me.

@Blackredblack your post shows you clearly do not understand what cultural appropriation is.
Read the first page of this thread.

Yes. Obviously I wouldn’t be making money but it’s really never been acceptable in my life time (if ever) for white people to braid their hair in black styles.

I've never noticed it being a problem here. Less prevalent than a few years ago but plenty of white women and girls had their hair braided or with cornrows and I never heard any negative comments.

brill.com/view/book/edcoll/9789004380172/BP000005.xml

But if you read here the african wax prints have dutch/ indonesian heritage. So is that offensive for javanese if africans keep wearing wax printed clothes?

Or are we maybe a bigger melting pot than we realise?

@YourFinestPantaloons

I'm also very much in the "just fucking listen" camp. If POC en masse are telling us cultural appropriation is damaging, how about we listen to them? Would that be so hard?

It would be easy if the message was aways the same.

So we have braided. hair being a No-No but wearing the traditional Japanese outfit is OK according to Japanese people who are actually happy to see their traditional outfit worn by others.

Then you had the fact that people have travelled. So I spent all my childhood overseas, dressed ‘like the locals’ because I saw myself as one of them. But according to most people in the U.K. that would be cultural appropriation regardless of my background, life experience etc…

We’ve had people who use sunbeds and that’s ok. But if you use a subbed and your skin gets naturally darker then it’s cultural appropriation.

Tbh no wonder people are confused.

I think the world was on track to be a much kinder place during the melting pot years. There was a long way to go obviously, but the blending of cultures helps bind us together.

That said, people are obviously bothered by behavior that has been classified as cultural appropriation, so I try to be careful to not engage in any behavior that would cause offense. While I find the current approach somewhat flawed, I can understand how people have come to this stance and I will respect that.

@usernamechanger123

I'm a WOC.

I find that around me it's white people, so called allies, who create a fuss around cultural appropriation and who are indignant on our behalf, when most of my poc friends and family couldn't care less. I find this insulting and infantilising tbh. If we care enough we can say it for ourselves.

My race is a part of who I am, but it's not the only thing that defines me.

Thank you!

It’s nice to see the pov of a woc.
I also get your point of all the fuss being infantilising.

@DingleyDel

Do you really think black women would be looking at you seeing appropriation rather than just someone doing a sensible style for their hair type?

Yes. Obviously I wouldn’t be making money but it’s really never been acceptable in my life time (if ever) for white people to braid their hair in black styles.

I’m sorry but as a child, I remember many of my friends wearing their hair like this. It was never seen as an issue.

I can't deny that there are instances of cultural appropriation but they are fewer than what's mentioned online and more are on an institutional scale, not for Joe/Jane Public going about their business doing/buying/wearing what they actually admire.

I think most instances of cultural appropriation accusations (not the real ones) are reactions to what POC have had to go through. It reminds me of when we were little and my brother was told to shut up so others could get a word in, and later when told it was his turn to speak, he'd refuse to speak at all and grudgingly say he was told not to speak when he wanted to, so now he's expected to, he's not going to speak.

May not be the best analogy but...
In this case, POC have had to deal with so much regarding hair, clothes, culture, etc so now that people are showing admiration for it, some have decided 'nope you can't have it now because you turned your nose up at it before'.

I understand it but it's a reaction to racism rather than it being about respect for any culture. It's just been given a name and allowed to ride on the coat tails of profiteering and exploitation.

It doesn't help anybody.

As a POC, I love white people and other races enjoying my culture, wearing our clothes, eating our food (even if they anglicise it). It can only be a good thing for people to take interest in others cultures?

@MiddlesexGirl

Yes. Obviously I wouldn’t be making money but it’s really never been acceptable in my life time (if ever) for white people to braid their hair in black styles.

I've never noticed it being a problem here. Less prevalent than a few years ago but plenty of white women and girls had their hair braided or with cornrows and I never heard any negative comments.

in the 90s most of my white teenage friends braided their hair - christ I used to go Tennerife as a kid and get my hair braided on the beach!