Cultural appropriation...how bad is it?

[malificent7]

So Rhianna is under fire for braiding white model's hair. What if a black model wanted to straighten and bleach her hair?
I love african wax print fabric but don't want to be accused of cultural appropriation if i wear a bit of it. I also own sari fabric clothes.

Aibu to ask mn who may or may not be from different ethnic backgrounds would they consider Rhianna or my behaviour inappropriate and what constitutes real cultural appropriation?

This is not a racist thread as dd is mixed race.

"BeenThruMoreThanALilBit

Really? There are plenty of POC on the beaches of Spain happy to charge (mainly) white girls to braid their hair.

This is so lacking in humanity it’s gross. Do you not understand that these people, who will have been bottom of the rung in Algeria and Morocco (because of the extreme darkness of their skin, in part) and fled north in the hope of better prospects, are obliged to sell a part of their heritage, their history, a fibre of their identity, for a few euros apiece? Do you think this is a chosen career? How can you in any way consider them to be as equal to you as to pass such a callous remark?"

Do you ACTUALLY believe that the women braiding hair on the beach for a few euros are actually worked up that they have to sell their heritage, their history, a fibre of their identity as you say. Have you asked those women or are you speaking for them, imagining what you think they might be feeling. I mean really. Why are you being outraged for them, let them speak for themselves, surely that is quite demeaning for them that you should decide how they are feeling? The fake outrage on behave of someone else.

@2389Champ

Couldn’t you use the same argument and say it’s offensive by those that wear massive crucifixes as a fashion statement even though they’re not practising Christians? Surely that’s appropriation too?

I was brought up with the expression, “imitation is the sincerest form of flattery” Maybe the fact that styles are copied by all cultures is a positive thing?
I have no dog in this fight, just interested in where the line could be drawn.

Indeed/

I think some would like us to sit in our boxes where they think we should stay. What's wrong with a mix of cultures/histories - should we segregate, keep to our own areas. Can I not purchase something from a particular shop because it's not my culture so shouldn't wear it. Not support a particular shop etc because it's not my culture.

I am Indian and I couldn't care less if anyone of any race wears Indian clothes, bindis, jewellery, whatever. I do roll my eyes slightly at the turmeric in everything fad. But I can't get too upset. There are far bigger problems.

Yes, I mean I like a multicultural society.

Well my daughter is mixed race but not" black" or from an african race. Middle Eastern if anything.

I think it's great that cultures mix and share different things, food, clothes, hairstyles, whatever it is. It's a way of learning about the world and each other. I really hate the idea that only certain people are allowed to do/say/wear/eat certain things - how limiting for everyone.

I've travelled quite a bit and literally every country I've been to, people have WANTED to share their food and style and ideas about how to do things, and were pleased if I already had some familiarity with whatever it was. What a shame to cut off that possible connection between people from different parts of the world and to recognise our shared humanity, in favour of keeping everyone in little prisons corresponding to the place of their birth.

Imagine going on holiday maybe to Russia or Argentina or some other country with a historically troubled relationship with the UK and finding everyone was wearing red velvet cloaks with fake fur, plastic replicas of the Queen's crown and carrying a plastic orb. It might not bother you that much as you are from a non-marginalised culture but you would still feel a bit misunderstood, cheapened, like they didn't really get where you came from and that they were treating your country like a joke.

That's cultural appropriation: a commodisation of someone's culture . It trivialises the culture, yet makes money out of it at the same time.

Personally I think a single wax headscarf bought for a fair price from a business owned by a PoC would be OK - but maybe not if lots of other people did it too.

@YourFinestPantaloons

I'm also very much in the "just fucking listen" camp. If POC en masse are telling us cultural appropriation is damaging, how about we listen to them? Would that be so hard?

Yep.

Personally I think a single wax headscarf bought for a fair price from a business owned by a PoC would be OK - but maybe not if lots of other people did it too

Interesting view. When I was living and working in Ghana I used to love spending time in Kumasi where one of Africa's largest open air markets was based. You could literally find anything there. It was also famous for its fine selection of print fabrics. There is surprisingly a large Lebanese community in many parts of West Africa, including Ghana, and quite a few of them have got in on the fabric business, would it be okay for me, a white Irish bloke, to buy a fabric from a Lebanese vendor, or would it be more ethical to buy it from a local Ashanti trader. There was also the issue of lots of Chinese made 'Africa' print fabrics being sold as well, how does that work, should I only buy from the locally sourced traders, or if I buy Chinese is it okay if it is from a local Ghanian? I had a few funky short shirt sleeve shirts made up, the local chaps on site thought they were brilliant. When I finally had to head back to London my much loved work colleagues gifted me a shirt as they knew how much I liked them. I still wear it in the UK. Not sure if it is made from Chinese or Ghanian fabric, should I have asked so I could work out on the cultural offence-o-meter I stand. Am I allowed to wear it in the UK? Do I really give a fuck?

My Chinese grandmother in law bought me a jade bracelet. She died a few weeks after she gave it to me. I used to wear it all the time but I stopped in recent years because I'm worried that I'll be accused of cultural appropriation because I'm white.

Sometimes dh jokes that I culturally appropriated him. It's funny, but to be honest, I'm kind of worried that we're only a few small steps away from mixed race marriages being frowned upon.

POC are also speaking here (and everywhere else) but you're probably right - they're not the right type of POC. They haven't the right opinions.

LookingGlassMilk

To me that is just sad. It was a beautiful gift from your late grandmother, not some bit of that from eBay. Wear it with pride, it's what your grandmother would have wanted. Its just tragic that these are the mental acrobats people are putting themselves through.

@LookingGlassMilk

My Chinese grandmother in law bought me a jade bracelet. She died a few weeks after she gave it to me. I used to wear it all the time but I stopped in recent years because I'm worried that I'll be accused of cultural appropriation because I'm white.

Sometimes dh jokes that I culturally appropriated him. It's funny, but to be honest, I'm kind of worried that we're only a few small steps away from mixed race marriages being frowned upon.

I think you should wear your bracelet. It sounds beautiful. Honestly, this CA stuff is a matter of opinion in most cases. Even if someone in real life confronted you (unlikely), you don’t have to agree.

I have thought the same re: mixed ethnicity/mixed cultural marriages and maybe being friends with someone of a different ethnic group will soon be PrObLeMaTIc (hate that word. Again, it’s all subjective)

Dillon, I know you're right, I shouldn't care what people think and wear it anyway. I'm just quite shy and self conscious, I don't want to risk being 'called out'.
I'm also aware that this kind of attitude exists more on social media than in real life.

It was from my grandmother in law btw, Dh's grandmother.

There's a world of difference between an individual wearing a family heirloom bracelet, and a huge corporation making money of Navajo print. The defining factor of cultural appropriation is whether the person or organisation is profiting from using something from a different (and less privileged) culture.

I think in the next few years cultural appropriators will just start identifying as that culture and then there's no argument if self id becomes legalised for gender. A slippery slope!

@Dragonpox That's already happened - a British influencer decided to identify as Korean. And of course there's currently a huge blackfishing industry.

I'll wear and eat what I like and if anyone objects, too bad.

Its a hair style. No one owns another persons hair style.

Very interesting, I've also know people in Ghana and you can see the influence china is having in Accra @DillonPanthersTexas

But these social considerations like local sourcing should apply to everyone, if that's the case. It's no less harmful if a Ghanaian buys a cheaper, imported fabric than if you do. People are focusing on the wrong thing by, for example, having a go at you because your white. Instead we should all make the effort, otherwise it is just lip service and gatekeeping culture - rather than genuine concern for people.

[quote VladmirsPoutine]@Dragonpox That's already happened - a British influencer decided to identify as Korean. And of course there's currently a huge blackfishing industry.[/quote]
Yes, I've seen that influencer. I meant it would become more widespread. We will end up having to add it to our email signatures. (she/her/he when wanting more pay/Irish when needing luck/french when choosing restaurants)

@GoOnDoAnASEyeroll

POC are also speaking here (and everywhere else) but you're probably right - they're not the right type of POC. They haven't the right opinions.

Wasn't it Biden who said if you don't vote Dem, "you ain't black"?

I think we should start calling this what it is: racism. It's racism to consider there's a right way to be a POC, correct opinions to have and attitudes to share. It's racism for white people to say POC have to think or behave in a certain way to be worthy of having white people listen to or care about them.

It blows my mind that people can't see that their "anti-racism" is literally racism. Try treating people as individuals rather than representatives of their racial or ethnic group. Consider people's character and not the colour of their skin.

@DillonPanthersTexas

Personally I think a single wax headscarf bought for a fair price from a business owned by a PoC would be OK - but maybe not if lots of other people did it too

Interesting view. When I was living and working in Ghana I used to love spending time in Kumasi where one of Africa's largest open air markets was based. You could literally find anything there. It was also famous for its fine selection of print fabrics. There is surprisingly a large Lebanese community in many parts of West Africa, including Ghana, and quite a few of them have got in on the fabric business, would it be okay for me, a white Irish bloke, to buy a fabric from a Lebanese vendor, or would it be more ethical to buy it from a local Ashanti trader. There was also the issue of lots of Chinese made 'Africa' print fabrics being sold as well, how does that work, should I only buy from the locally sourced traders, or if I buy Chinese is it okay if it is from a local Ghanian? I had a few funky short shirt sleeve shirts made up, the local chaps on site thought they were brilliant. When I finally had to head back to London my much loved work colleagues gifted me a shirt as they knew how much I liked them. I still wear it in the UK. Not sure if it is made from Chinese or Ghanian fabric, should I have asked so I could work out on the cultural offence-o-meter I stand. Am I allowed to wear it in the UK? Do I really give a fuck?

I just meant don't buy it from Primark..

There is a white, dread-locked young man who sings Bob Marley songs in a thick Jamaican accent outside the Arndale Centre in Manchester.

Sometimes dh jokes that I culturally appropriated him. It's funny, but to be honest, I'm kind of worried that we're only a few small steps away from mixed race marriages being frowned upon.

They already are! Especially when a POC marries a white women.