Cultural appropriation...how bad is it?

[malificent7]

So Rhianna is under fire for braiding white model's hair. What if a black model wanted to straighten and bleach her hair?
I love african wax print fabric but don't want to be accused of cultural appropriation if i wear a bit of it. I also own sari fabric clothes.

Aibu to ask mn who may or may not be from different ethnic backgrounds would they consider Rhianna or my behaviour inappropriate and what constitutes real cultural appropriation?

This is not a racist thread as dd is mixed race.

Black people have been punished for wearing their hair like this for a long time, but when White people do it it is an a fashionable statement.

But the problem there is not how white people wear their hair, there's nothing wrong with what they're doing.

The problem is that black people were punished for it in the first place.

I guess there is a big issue here with historical hurt caused by racism and I understand trying to find an outlet for that, but people being hauled over the coals for CA isn't actually addressing the real problem.

@VavavoomHenry

Are you fully trained and experienced in both? If so have you used BSL with those needing additional support ?

If not then you are not able to judge sorry

Why is the emphasis on spoken language amd not understanding and language comprehension?

Language is more fundemental than being able to say odd sounds in isolation.

For those caoable of developung full spoken language BSL wont hinder but complement. Those unable to develop full spoken english are disadvantaged by being denied BSL.

People being aware of, and respectful, of the profound feelings of hurt and anger, that they were punished for (and still are, when it comes to hair), reflecting their cultural and ethnic heritage, and that they shouldn't assume that they can appropriate them with impunity, would perhaps help ensure they weren't hauled over the coals for it.

Learn the history. Learn the meaning. Understand that it's not yours for the taking, without potential backlash. Not hard.

[quote Covidworries]@NovemberWitch

Exactly very limited experience means you are unable to define and understand the full benefits of BSL. You have been sold the makaton misconception that BSL isnt suitable without having enough knowledge of BSL and exactly why it is the best option to meet all children who need or benefit from sign communication regardless of all and any additional needs[/quote]
Probably.
I was just grateful that the mute child with severe Down’s syndrome in my mainstream EAL primary classroom was able to ask me for a drink, and the toilet. And that I could learn and teach a dozen basic signs to the class, so they could communicate with her.
But you’re right, I know buggerall about the Deaf community.

People being aware of, and respectful, of the profound feelings of hurt and anger, that they were punished for (and still are, when it comes to hair

But who decides who gets to wear braids? Many, many cultures can claim braids as part of their heritage.

How 'pure' does that heritage have to be? 100%, 50%, 2%, where's the cut off?

Can I look to any cultures outside my own for inspiration? Which ones? If we limit ourselves to just our own that's both stultifying and segregating.

And ultimately we've done nothing to address the actual problem which is that black people being discriminated for wearing their braids was appalling.

,

I've been bought African fabric to make clothes by my Tanzanian friend and been to many Asian events where it's expected for me to wear a sari, I've also worn a kimono to a Japanese event (organised by their embassy). As long as you are not wearing "ethnic" clothes as a joke then I can't see an issue - but wearing Native American stereotypical outfits or fake Chinese dresses as fancy dress is on more dodgy ground! I also think there's a difference between wearing clothes as a white woman and wearing a wig, makeup etc to try and pretend I'm something else

@sst1234

Exactly. The first thing my friends mum said to me at my friends engagement party was that I must come round a choose some saris (from her rather extensive collection) for the wedding bashes. She didn't even consider I might wear a "white persons" wedding outfit at an Asian wedding!

If you want to look outside your culture for 'inspiration', then don't just look at the superficial. Look at the history, the meaning. Be respectful. Given these days of instant communication, it's not hard to connect to those within the culture to ask what you can, and cannot do, without giving cause for offence or anger.

Of course, if that's all too much bother. . .

When it comes to what percentage of ethnicity a person needs to be in order to claim that cultural authority - that often depends on the culture one is talking about. In Maori, for example, it's all about whakapapa, about your family tree, and acceptance of your heritage and whakapapa by the iwi, and the kaumatua (the elders). It's also understanding about the traditions, the practices, and the history. It's not about percentage. And it's certainly not about whether someone outside that cultural heritage deems that they have sufficient percentage of that blood to be worthy of being listened to.

@NovemberWitch

And that child could have been supported with BSL for the same purpose.
The difference being that in a sutuation where tou have a child using makaton and a child using BSL in the same class. This doesnt work as the class would be need to know both. The deaf child cant access makaton because it relies heavily on the speech to make sense.

However, if the DS child was given early access to basic BSL then the support staff and the other children would be able to have simple communication with both children with neigher children having to miss out. The class would have access to both sign and speech bilingually. BSL is hugely beneficial for developing dexterity, coordination in young children. Great for developing literacy and numeracy comprehension. And as a language can be tailored to recipient individual needs.

NOt your fault as you were dropped in the deep end and the professionals supporting the family should have done better

If you want to look outside your culture for 'inspiration', then don't just look at the superficial. Look at the history, the meaning. Be respectful.

Is there anything inherently disrespectful about wearing your hair in a hairstyle that's millennia old?

In Maori, for example, it's all about whakapapa, about your family tree, and acceptance of your heritage and whakapapa by the iwi, and the kaumatua (the elders). It's also understanding about the traditions, the practices, and the history. It's not about percentage

And in a very complex, multi racial world, where the vast majority of us have some degree of mixed ethnicity, what about everyone else?

How's about middle class rugby for cultural appropriation?

The Chiefs with no connection to American Indians using headdresses and tomahawk chants and songs. The mainly white supporters of the rugby team down south think that's ok.

How does that work when comparing to hair braiding then or is that OK cus it's 🏉

Everyone should wear whatever clothes they wish and their hair however it pleases them. If others have an issue that's their problem. I suppose in thr case of styling a model, you're bound to stir up more fuss due to a larger audience. At the end of the day it's literally pieces of fabric stitched together/ keratin that grows out of your scalp.

@tavelo

Whats your view on blacking up?

@Loveshelly

Is it the same as an English person wearing clan tartan. Because i have done that and not thought twice about it

No, it really isn't. Clan tartans are a 19th century invention, they have nothing to do with real Highland culture.

@Naunet the race debate in America is very very heavily bound up in the history of slavery here.

British people often don't fully appreciate this when importing memes.

I am sitting on the fence so much on this that my arse has got splinters. I find myself nodding along with posters on both sides.

But, apart from.a couple of posts about Jamie Oliver and the kilt issue, most of the the thread seems about womens actions and behaviours. I just worry that this is another way successful women are'policed' more than their male counterparts.

Wearing kilts both is and isn't similar.
Specific clan tartans are Victorian creations.
However different weaving patterns were thought to be area based, probably influenced by individual families of weavers.
More importantly for this discussion wearing kilts was banned and that came with heavy penalties.
A lot of effort went into dismantling the power of the clan structures and controlling dress and language was part of that.
I still am happy to see English people wearing kilts regardless of this as it promotes my cultural heritage.
I'm not going to tell other cultures how they should respond, that is up to them.

@Loveshelly

Is it the same as an English person wearing clan tartan. Because i have done that and not thought twice about it

I was just thinking this from the other perspective - if a purely English guy decided to wear a kilt to a wedding just because he thought it looked cool / unusual, everyone would think he was an idiot.

[quote Wbeezer]@RaraRachael if you see my post earlier as Scottish people were actually oppressed for wearing tartan then non Scots wearing it now would class as cultural appropriation by current definitions but, personally i think it was a long time ago and would it really add to the sum of human happiness to ban anyone else wearing kilts? (mind you, some kilt outfits should be banned on the grounds of good taste!)[/quote]
Just to be clear I'm Scottish and have no issue with non-Scots wearing the national dress. However if you were to replace the word 'Scots' with 'Indians' and the word 'kilt' for 'turban' then your comment would be undoubtedly offensive. If cultural appropriation means using parts of a culture without acknowledging the significance then it could be argued that if non-Scots wear it without acknowledging that it was banned with severe penalties or make glib comments that's tartans are modern or made up then it could count as cultural appropriation. Of course some may dismiss it as people getting themselves into 'a twist' about it, eh @Quickchangeartiste ?

Are all these people complaining about cultural appropriation going to stop using the English language then please?
Honestly, so much fuss over nothing.

Interesting point PickUpAPepper. The Maori language almost died out, due to children being beaten if they used it in schools, their parents being taught that the way of the future was English, so discouraging their children from speaking it at home.

That is the difference between a dominant culture, which takes what it wants, and has little or no respect or care for other cultures, and a non-dominant culture, which is supposed to sit down, put up, and shut up - and of course be terribly flattered if the dominant culture decides that something of its culture is sufficiently worthy that they wish to appropriate it.

It’s all about the power dynamic.

Touché @BlueBellsArePretty , you got me on the banning.

But let’s face it, Scottish politics are all about getting in a twist and if we can take offence we will. And I stand by that comment.

@PickUpAPepper

Well they could but would you be able to understand them?

Also English language users havent been punished or had their language banned to my knowledge. Many other languages have been oppressed by English so sadly English has actually been forced on a lot of us

I was half-expecting a less polite response on those lines so thank you for keeping things polite. You are of course correct about past imperial ways.
Are we still a 'dominant culture'? Is Britain still an empire? Exactly who is dominant? A heck of a lot of 'white people' are born into poverty here in the UK. They always were, actually, especially in the time of the British empire, when working class people were down the mines here. I think you will find things are a lot more complicated and I do not see much of value in stoking up these divisions over who has the right to braid their hair.