"Only women have cervixes"...

[Yetano]

So, I was as pissed off as most and thought Fuck off Starmer, how the hell do they make someone a cervix? etc, especially after the outrageous "bodies with vaginas" article. However...

Have just been reading that the whole argument originated with Trans men not being able to get cervical smears and people ending up having to have a colcoscopy due to delays in screening.

Trans men, do, of course start with a cervix, and presumably retain one. Apparently, the computer systems make it difficult or impossible to book a smear.

I've often thought that Trans men get a raw deal in the whole trans debate. It mostly seems to be centred around trans women's wants and needs and that this is yet another example of women, or in this case, former women's needs being sidelined and not heard.

It's because trans women are men so are used to the privilege that bestows upon them.

In no world would a trans man act like trans women are.

This is the issue though isnt it? They ARE women (adult human female) and by pretending they aren't they get lost in the system.

The problem is that transmen will change their gender marker with the NHS. There is no sex marker. Those recorded as men are not called for smears - that bit is common sense. Rather than force 51% of the population to be referred to as “people with cervices” the NHS could add a biological sex marker to the record system. That would also avoid trans women being called for smears they don’t need (for “validation” or anything else).

I've often thought that Trans men get a raw deal in the whole trans debate

Trans men don't seem to draw the same story of ire from transphobes who sensationalise.

Same sort*

There’s nothing forcing trans men to change their NHS record from F to M. If they want the healthcare they need as biological women they can either maintain an accurate health profile or they can request smear tests and anything else they require.

Quite rightly, the NHS doesn’t require male bodied people to tests for female bodied people.

Of course. The medical records need to record their sex as female, so they get picked up for smears etc. They could record their self-identity? Belief? I don't know, as whatever they request, but things like this are why you cannot and should not ignore sex or conflate it with gender.

Very much agree with your last paragraph OP.

@NavigatingAdolescence

The problem is that transmen will change their gender marker with the NHS. There is no sex marker. Those recorded as men are not called for smears - that bit is common sense. Rather than force 51% of the population to be referred to as “people with cervices” the NHS could add a biological sex marker to the record system. That would also avoid trans women being called for smears they don’t need (for “validation” or anything else).

This would be simple solution.

Yes, also agree with NavigatingAdolescence. There has to be a common sense solution.

If a transman, who was not called for a smear, phoned the surgery and booked it, they'd do it. So if you're going to take on the responsibility of having changed your sex marker with the NHS, perhaps you could also bear the responsibility of getting the health checks relevant to your biology.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4359210-It-shouldn-t-be-said-that-only-women-have-a-cervix

I don't care what gender people identify with. Be who you are. Everyone should be able to get appropriate medical care. If you have a cervix you should be offered a cervical screen.

Our medical records should absolutely have sex AND gender. There are particular health concerns of all combinations and everyone deserves equal medical care

If a person decides to change their sex marker on their medical record it is up to them to sort out appointments that the system will miss
I'm sure I read in the early days (before the madness really took hold) that they were told to make appointments related to female biology
Unless you think both sexes should routinely be called for smear tests
I understand that in Canada it is considered a gender affirming procedure for transwomen. I pity the nurses who are forced to carry out the procedure

What difference does gender make to health needs?

Surely only sex matters for those? Trying to think of something where gender would impact medical treatment.

There is no way trans men don't know they have a cervix. They will be painfully aware of their anatomy as a result of their dysphoria.

Therefore if they choose to change their marker on their medical records to male, they need to take the responsibility themselves to ensure they still have the health checks required because of their female bodies

Where people insist we change our language to suit this tiny minority, they make things less clear and accessible for other marginalised groups, including women whose first language isn't English and women with a learning disability

@herculesoffline

I've often thought that Trans men get a raw deal in the whole trans debate

Trans men don't seem to draw the same story of ire from transphobes who sensationalise.

Transmen never feature in TRA arguments. This is a reflection on TRAs, not feminists.

The NHS website (and the lancet) refers to men when it talks about male specific health issues. It is only women that are erased.

It's misogyny. Place the blame where it belongs.

YES, what tilder said.

The NHS should never have agreed to change the sex marker on medical records. Absolutely ridiculous.

There is a common sense solution - accept that a transman is a woman. Call yourself what you want but biologically you are a woman. There are two sub-sets of women, people who call themselves women and people who call themselves a tranman. They are all women.

@Chewieboora

What difference does gender make to health needs?

Surely only sex matters for those? Trying to think of something where gender would impact medical treatment.

Mental health services perhaps 👀

@Marguerite2000

The NHS should never have agreed to change the sex marker on medical records. Absolutely ridiculous.

Agree.

Interesting. This thread shows that much of the resistance here and elsewhere to expanding trans rights is in fact motivated by sheer prejudice.

I received quite a bit of bullying and name calling on a thread when I suggested that the debate needed to be more nuanced and that trans people also deserved rights and dignity. I was told women's safety was more important, and that is a valid point.

However women's safety is not in question here or taking away rights from anyone but making life easier for trans men, and yet posters make offensive remarks about trans people, mainly trans men here, and question the validity of transsexualism full stop. That sounds very much like transphobia.

Also following the braids thread with interest, with many white women shouting down black women for pointing out where the problem lies and demanding the right to continue to wear braids.

I'm beginning to agree with those who see a problem with white feminism, and I say that as a white feminist.

www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/koa-beck-dismantling-persistence-white-feminism-n1253555

This thread shows that much of the resistance here and elsewhere to expanding trans rights is in fact motivated by sheer prejudice.

Can you elaborate on this section? Which rights need to be expanded?