"Only women have cervixes"...

[Yetano]

So, I was as pissed off as most and thought Fuck off Starmer, how the hell do they make someone a cervix? etc, especially after the outrageous "bodies with vaginas" article. However...

Have just been reading that the whole argument originated with Trans men not being able to get cervical smears and people ending up having to have a colcoscopy due to delays in screening.

Trans men, do, of course start with a cervix, and presumably retain one. Apparently, the computer systems make it difficult or impossible to book a smear.

I've often thought that Trans men get a raw deal in the whole trans debate. It mostly seems to be centred around trans women's wants and needs and that this is yet another example of women, or in this case, former women's needs being sidelined and not heard.

Re: “White Feminism”,Sonia Sodha has this right:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/26/white-feminists-are-under-attack-from-other-women-here-can-only-be-one-winner--men

Sonia also has a cervix!

What a coincidence, that being the topic of the thread and all!

Suspect the detail about “white feminism” was deliberate. There is a concerted effort now amongst TRAs to conflate gender critical views with white supremacy and the far right. A very dark, very deliberate, smear tactic.

@elodie77 think you should check out Allison Bailey, a black lesbian criminal law barrister and gay rights activist - also a founder of LGB Alliance - who has been targeted by Stonewall.

@WitchOftheWestCoast

Suspect the detail about “white feminism” was deliberate. There is a concerted effort now amongst TRAs to conflate gender critical views with white supremacy and the far right. A very dark, very deliberate, smear tactic.

@elodie77 think you should check out Allison Bailey, a black lesbian criminal law barrister and gay rights activist - also a founder of LGB Alliance - who has been targeted by Stonewall.

Yes, the derail is deliberate.

Disagreement is not abuse.

@AlfonsoTheDinosaur

What a coincidence, that being the topic of the thread and all!

Id quite forgotten what the subject of the thread was!

I hate it when i have to go back to the title and check

Was the topic that it's the female type of human whose health suffers while politicians opine on radio stations about how "transwomen are women" and might develop cervixes after hormonal treatment?

Disagreement is not abuse. No, of course not, and I'm really happy to debatec, but there have been comments here in the last couple of days that I consider abusive.

Deliberate and obvious.

For me this is about gynecological health and how to get best outcomes. There should be no obfuscation, this isn't a matter of opinion. This is about people registering themselves correctly so that they can receive the best medical care and support available.

Can you quote the posts that have been "bullying" "abusive" or "bigoted"?

Ah but @Kittii it’s what she “considers abusive” which is just about as subjective as it gets. Just because something offends, it doesn’t make it de facto abusive.

Yes that's why I'm interested to see what she considers "abusive". Would be interesting to compare it to being called a cervix haver or a body with a vagina. If that's not abusive I don't know what is.

*Can you quote the posts that have been "bullying" "abusive" or "bigoted"?

Not tonight, Josephine, am too tired to go back through all those threads, but maybe tomorrow!

I would be interested in debating many of these issues in a slightly more measured way though if you're up for it another day!

Start your own thread. You may get a taker.

But if it's too much trouble, I am sure we'd understand.

Its not comments on this thread that have offended Elodie77 which is why they cannot reference them, but if we spend this thread talking about the feelings of one poster then we get distracted from talking about the gynecological health of female people who are taking high volumes of testosterone and how that makes them even more vulnerable to gynecological issues.

I don't know who benefits from that,

A non cervix haver?

You might say that, I couldn't possibly comment

I would be interested in debating many of these issues in a slightly more measured way though if you're up for it another day!

I didn't think so.

Reasonably on topic, can I note:

Women with a learning disability in England have an average life expectancy of 65, GP data from NHS Digital have shown—18 years lower than those without.1

The inequality is greater in women than men. Men with a learning disability had an average life expectancy of 66 in 2017-18, compared with 80 in men without a recorded disability.

Patients with learning disabilities also had lower rates of cancer screening, most notably in cervical screening for women: only 31% had smear tests, compared with 73.2% of those without a learning disability.

www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l404

What a surprise. Call bigot and then suddenly unable to back any of it up. I've seen this happen so many times. It gets really tedious. Insult and then run away seems to be the "weapon" of choice of TRAs.

[quote PurgatoryOfPotholes]Reasonably on topic, can I note:

Women with a learning disability in England have an average life expectancy of 65, GP data from NHS Digital have shown—18 years lower than those without.1

The inequality is greater in women than men. Men with a learning disability had an average life expectancy of 66 in 2017-18, compared with 80 in men without a recorded disability.

Patients with learning disabilities also had lower rates of cancer screening, most notably in cervical screening for women: only 31% had smear tests, compared with 73.2% of those without a learning disability.

www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l404[/quote]
Those stats are shocking. More than two thirds of women with a learning disability do not get their smear test.

Smear tests save lives.

@NavigatingAdolescence

The problem is that transmen will change their gender marker with the NHS. There is no sex marker. Those recorded as men are not called for smears - that bit is common sense. Rather than force 51% of the population to be referred to as “people with cervices” the NHS could add a biological sex marker to the record system. That would also avoid trans women being called for smears they don’t need (for “validation” or anything else).

Exactly that. Mark biological intrinsic birth sex, defined by DNA. Then also add separately the preferred / identified sex.

BTW I found the quotes from feminists who have very different lives to me really interesting. It's good to be reminded how privileged we are in the West. Plus read how women with a very different lived experience are affected by gender ideology.

Well, there is a very dominant strand of activism that doesn't care about marginalised women like that. They care about transwomen getting parts in Hollywood films and being featured in the Times Top 100 women list, and screw women with learning disabilities dying of cervical cancer.

Jo's Trust has a page pitched towards women with learning disabilities, to increase uptake for this cohort, but this is a drop of water in the desert.

www.jostrust.org.uk/information/cervical-screening/cervical-screening-learning-disability