"Only women have cervixes"...

[Yetano]

So, I was as pissed off as most and thought Fuck off Starmer, how the hell do they make someone a cervix? etc, especially after the outrageous "bodies with vaginas" article. However...

Have just been reading that the whole argument originated with Trans men not being able to get cervical smears and people ending up having to have a colcoscopy due to delays in screening.

Trans men, do, of course start with a cervix, and presumably retain one. Apparently, the computer systems make it difficult or impossible to book a smear.

I've often thought that Trans men get a raw deal in the whole trans debate. It mostly seems to be centred around trans women's wants and needs and that this is yet another example of women, or in this case, former women's needs being sidelined and not heard.

I didn't know that Purgatory.

What really concerns me is that in my own experience doctors are more than happy to fob women off about our reproductive health. Its your age, its just one of those things, its a "woman's burden".

It was only when I ended up needing a hysterectomy after years of being fobbed of by doctors that I realised how strongly you need to be able to advocate for yourself, and a part of that is being informed and being open and honest even if it feels embarrasing.

I actually really upsets me that there are women who's healthcare is suffering because its something they don't want to face because I know that there are doctors who are quite happy to ignore obvious health problems to have an easy life.

Our biological bodies are so so important. We can think what we like about who we “think” we are but ultimately our biology defines our health.

I hate the idea of trans ideology (and it feels like an ideology) trumping biological reality. How did we get to this point? Is it from all the shouting on Twitter?

Any changes that, say, a man does in terms of dressing, operations etc - fundamentally they are cosmetic and do not change your chromosomes.

I think that the reason some transgender men change their NHS records to Male is because that is the only way to have Mr. as their title on their medical records. Otherwise it has to be Mx. This is what my transgender son has been told. His name has been changed by deed poll but he cannot have Mr as his title at our GP or hospital.
I do not know if this is the case everywhere but it is what he has been told.
When we informed our GP Practice that he identified as male and had legally changed his name they contacted us to see how he wanted to proceed with a change of gender on his records. If he wanted to be known as Mr he has to be issued with a new NHS number.

Jo's Trust has a page on guidance for HCPs, on how to make screening a welcoming environment for transmen and people observed female at birth who identify as non-binary.

www.jostrust.org.uk/professionals/health-professionals/nurse-gp/trans-non-binary/barriers

NHS should only be noting someones sex. All other identity issues are your own private affair unless they impact medical treatment. It’s the fragile sense of self which is contingent on the world providing validation which is harming trans people. It’s stupid and it’s going to get people killed. You can’t change sex, I imagine people who transition successfully and happily are those with a better grip on reality.

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

Maybe "females of all identities have a cervix" would be better?

I don't have a gender identity. Do I still have a cervix? Putting it like this perpetuates the idea of gender identity being universal which, given the damage it's doing to many people's wellbeing is not helpful.

Well I thought it made more sense than "women of all genders have a cervix" because "women of all identities" can mean women from all walks of life including those with identities pertaining to their ethnicity or career or just where they're from in this country, like Yorkshire or Manchester, and includes women with a gender identity too.

I'm not sure everyone links "having an identity" with "having a gender identity".

@anontwentyone

I can see your intentions are good but if you add 'of any identity' you exclude some people. We need to just be able to say women. If you use the idea of 'women of all identities' you confuse the picture. We just need to be able to say women

Since when did it become “phobia” to question the validity of nonsense?

Was Galileo “phobic” for observing out the world wasn’t flat, much as though it hurt the Catholic Church’s feelings?

Are those who refuse to humour people who believe the earth was created in seven days “phobic”?

[quote Whatiswrongwithmyknee]@anontwentyone

I can see your intentions are good but if you add 'of any identity' you exclude some people. We need to just be able to say women. If you use the idea of 'women of all identities' you confuse the picture. We just need to be able to say women[/quote]
Surely all females have an identy of some sort, eg being "creative" or "northern" or "a climber" or "a transman" and many could be all four, so who's excluded from "women/females of all identities" ?

@Ziegfeld

Since when did it become “phobia” to question the validity of nonsense?

Was Galileo “phobic” for observing out the world wasn’t flat, much as though it hurt the Catholic Church’s feelings?

Are those who refuse to humour people who believe the earth was created in seven days “phobic”?

Good point. One’s so-called gender identity is a personal matter. Similarly if I feel that I’m an Aries and believe that because I was born at a particular time I possess certain qualities I’m certainly entitled to hold that opinion but that’s where it ends

“Identity” has become some sort of sacred cow. Identities are no more than narratives and stories we tell ourselves about who we are, yet some of these stories seem to have been elevated into transcendent truths.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes that cervical screening page is fantastic, thank you.

@Toodlydoo

NHS should only be noting someones sex. All other identity issues are your own private affair unless they impact medical treatment. It’s the fragile sense of self which is contingent on the world providing validation which is harming trans people. It’s stupid and it’s going to get people killed. You can’t change sex, I imagine people who transition successfully and happily are those with a better grip on reality.

I agree. The NHS should not sex only.

Note not not! I need more coffee.

I am so so so very tired of this identity nonsense. Who cares what your identity is? You can identify as a UFO for all that I care. What matters is your sex, which is determined at time of conception and is immutable.

@Anontwentyone

I don't think we can assume that everyone feels they have an identity. I don't really. Plus it's not relevant to health care which has f all to do with your identity so it confuses the picture. Which can make it hard for people to k ow who's being spoken to.

[quote Whatiswrongwithmyknee]@Anontwentyone

I don't think we can assume that everyone feels they have an identity. I don't really. Plus it's not relevant to health care which has f all to do with your identity so it confuses the picture. Which can make it hard for people to k ow who's being spoken to.[/quote]
^ Agree.

I don't have an 'identity' as such. I'm just me.

I've done various things in my life.

The jobs I've done, the area I originated from, the hobbies I've had. I've been a wife and a mother and I'm now retired.

I see none of those things as my 'identity'.

I'm a woman. I'm not one dimensional. I have various interests and facets to my character.

For both medical and non-medical purposes I can be defined as a women. There's no need for me to be defined as a cervix haver, or some other nonsense woke expression and I don't have to 'identify' as something or other to fit into a category of some kind.

The word woman has done the job for a very long time that's all that's needed to identify an female human adult.