Page 9 | To say there are some decent men

Iflyaway · 30/09/2021 21:24

^OP for my tuppenceworth I've actually never met a bad one.*

Wow. Lucky you.

I've met plenty.... Loads of misogynist men out there, even in the guise of so-called "joking"

MareofBeasttown · 30/09/2021 21:24

The bar for men is so fucking low it is on the floor.. My DD would never hurt a man. Why isnt she being praised?

grapewine · 30/09/2021 21:24

And every time you hear about a woman who was strangled during sex, or killed by a man she met online, or abused by her partner, or raped by an acquaintance, or attacked by a stranger, or kidnapped, raped and murdered by a fucking police officer... That man was being given the benefit of the doubt. He was being treated like a perfectly safe boyfriend/ date/ husband/ friend/ member of the public. Because we KNOW that not all men are like that. And we ACT like not all men are like that. And it hurts us again and again and again.

This is the painful truth right here. Well said, TheCloudBotherer

Puffalicious · 30/09/2021 21:27

@Ledition

Everyone thinks their dad/husband/brother are the good ones. Sure there are good ones but I honestly believe they're in the minority when it comes to sexism/perverted creeps.

I had a long term boyfriend in my late teens/throughout my twenties. He was the sweetest man I knew - kind, had a charming naivety to him and we were partners in every way, in fact he probably pulled his weight domestically more than I did. One night after too much booze he told me a story about when he and his group of (very friendly, respectable, educated) friends went on holidays before I met him. One of the guys had brought a girl back to the apartment and they slept together. The girl was passed out sleeping and numerous guys in the group assaulted her while the others looked on. Even though I was quite drunk when he told me this (lord knows why he thought it was a good idea to tell me?!) I was furious, livid with rage. His defence? "But she was a slut?!" And he then got angry at me for me being angry?!

It's been about 15 years since he told me that story and it still haunts me. That was the night I realised that even the "good" guys aren't good and my idealism that it was just a few "bad apples" faded. Those guys are married with children now, respectable, intelligent, very "nice" people with mothers and sisters and wives who would never in a million years think their darling son, brother, husband would be capable of sexual assault.

Men are a massive, massive problem and it's not being tackled. I despair for my two young DDs futures. I only hope the parents of boys raise a better generation than the ones that came before them...

This is sickening. Fucking sickening. Every single one of them.should have done time- the onlookers too. That poor woman. I hope she's safe and healing.

Im raising 3 boys and will do my everything in my power to make sure the future for your DDs is better. I promise.

Underamour · 30/09/2021 21:28

@Limejuiceandrum because we won’t stand for it anymore. Because we march in the streets and campaign for change. Because we challenge the norms, don’t let misogynistic behaviour go unchecked and now society is changing.

Ledition · 30/09/2021 21:32

If they are so decent why are they not lobbying their MPs/protesting outside parliament/patrolling the streets to make sure women are safe. Turning a blind eye does not make a man decent. The bar has been set so low. All men are complicit in allowing a society that is full of violence against women.

This is very true. If the tables were turned women would be out in their droves for their sons, husbands, fathers. Men are all complicit, at some point in their lives they've all had a creepy friend/colleague/classmate whose behaviour they've laughed off and wouldn't confront. It will only change if they stop accepting misogyny in their circles, unfortunately women are the last people who can change it, these creeps don't care what the inferior sex think of them it's men who need to make such behaviour unacceptable.

Naunet · 30/09/2021 21:34

OP for my tuppenceworth I've actually never met a bad one

What a stupid statement to make, you have absolutely no idea if that’s true. My dad abused me when I was a child. I’m sure a lot of people think he’s a very nice man too. 🤨

Ledition · 30/09/2021 21:35

Im raising 3 boys and will do my everything in my power to make sure the future for your DDs is better. I promise.

Thank you Puffalicious I have two beautiful nephews and my sister and her husband are really aware of these issues and are very conscious of the language they use around the boys and gender stereotypes etc. So I do have some hope things will change with good parents like you around!

TreeSmuggler · 30/09/2021 21:40

Oh look right on time, a women is swooping down like a super hero in her save a dick cape, ready to defend the real victim of this story, men!*

*Stole this from another thread on this topic because it is so so accurate

Rocaille · 30/09/2021 21:43

I have epilepsy and DH had always had my back and supported me. Done more then his fare share with kids including most night feeds as well as working full time which I can do. Letting me sleep and recover after a seizure and taking charge without complaining.
He always make me feel good about myself, never pesters for sex and is a good dad.

Looking after his kids, letting you sleep after a seizure, and not pestering for sex is bare minimum behaviour. It really shouldn't be a big deal that he does these things.

iamyourequal · 30/09/2021 21:45

thefourgp
You’re part of the problem OP. Male violence against women is endemic. Coming onto a forum that’s largely used by women in bad relationships, on a day where nearly everyone’s talking about a horrific rape and murder, to smugly brag about how great you think your husband is and preach NAMALT, is in such poor taste. You should be ashamed.

I totally agree with this. You have really misread the room today OP. Your opening post is beyond crass. Truly distasteful.

Sn0tnose · 30/09/2021 21:45

Mumsnet seems to be full of men haters Have you actually read this thread? Or any of the others discussing vawg? It’s full of absolute cabbages who are incapable of seeing what is happening to the women around them and instead are concentrating on the fact that their sons/husbands/brothers have never been arrested for rape or murder so clearly an attack on violent men is a personal insult against their loved ones. Mumsnet is full of women who are really fucking angry, plus a few women who don’t recognise their own misogyny.

OP, how dare you try and make women feel guilt about our righteous anger? Like we should sit down and shut up because your husband does what any normal, decent person would do for their spouse? Unbelievably tone deaf post considering what has happened today. Shame on you.

Sn0tnose · 30/09/2021 21:46

OP for my tuppenceworth I've actually never met a bad one How the fuck would you know?

Dutch1e · 30/09/2021 21:52

@TractorAndHeadphones

Honestly? There are shitty men but the ones who are violent to the point of abuse definitely have some form of mental disorder. Casual misogyny as a result of the patriarchy etc is one thing but to kidnap and kill a woman something is seriously wrong. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-reality-corner/201302/behind-the-veil-inside-the-mind-men-who-abuse%3famp

There is no point is saying ‘teach men not to abuse’ they’re not to be easily reasoned with.

You need to read the comment partially pasted below, by @TheAntiGardener. Pretty much sums it up

I think of misogyny as being very similar to that theory of health and safety that represents a pyramid with high-occurrence, low-impact risks at the bottom and rare catastrophes at the top. Idea being that you create a culture of safety by taking extremely seriously and reducing the number of things at the bottom of the pyramid in order to eliminate as far as possible the things higher up. You make it so that it is simply unthinkable to tolerate unsafe conditions.

We need to stop seeing these murders as isolated incidents carried out by people who are intrinsically outside the norms of society. We are all swimming in a sea of misogyny - at the bottom it’s thoughtless jokes and micro aggressions and then it feeds up to people who act on that all the way up to murder.

NigellaSeed · 30/09/2021 21:52

@Thelnebriati

To the posters who claim that a whole sex is being demonized - ask yourself why you are making more of a fuss about women reacting to male violence than the epidemic of violence.

Why is it so offensive to you that women don't want to live in fear?

This. So not the day for this thread. At all.

thefourgp · 30/09/2021 21:52

Oh look right on time, a women is swooping down like a super hero in her save a dick cape, ready to defend the real victim of this story, men!*

well put - it’s funny and tragic at the same time

FOJN · 30/09/2021 21:57

Women do hideous things too but I don't think I've ever heard a woman say NAWALT. Perhaps because when women do awful things we don't make it about us and we can think of the victims of their appalling actions.

Why do we put up with men always making it about them? If you're not a violent arsehole or sexual predator then we're not talking about you. If, when confronted with the evidence of how violent men can be, all a man has to contribute is NAMALT that then it's probably best if they just pipe down.

It's not my job to confirm they're one of the good guys so their feelings are't hurt and I won't be congratulating any bloke who manages not to rape or murder, that is not the fucking criteria for hero status.

ColorMagicBarbie · 30/09/2021 21:57

@HarrietsChariot

YABU, your DH is overwhelmingly more likely to attack you than a stranger is. At least, that's what the evidence says.

And women are more likely to murder our newborn infants than anybody else. Does that mean women can't be trusted with babies?

youvegottenminuteslynn · 30/09/2021 21:59

@TractorAndHeadphones

Honestly? There are shitty men but the ones who are violent to the point of abuse definitely have some form of mental disorder. Casual misogyny as a result of the patriarchy etc is one thing but to kidnap and kill a woman something is seriously wrong.

You can't separate the two 'types' though because they are absolutely connected and one feeds the other.

It's casual misogyny that leads to boys growing into men who nickname their colleague 'the rapist' instead of flagging concerns about him or refusing to engage with him at all.

If every single colleague who witnessed whatever behaviour led to that nickname had challenged him, filed a report and expressed concerns that his attitude towards women was an issue... maybe he wouldn't have still been a serving police officer and therefore this particular, horrific, heartbreaking crime wouldn't have been committed.

That's just one instance that shows how casual misogyny enables men who hate women to hide in plain sight under the thin veil of 'lads lads lads' or similar to escalate into being offenders.

And I tell you what, it won't have been female officers who came up with and kept using that nickname for it. It will be fellow officers who would probably all be called 'good men' by their loved ones because they haven't directly hurt them.

Maybe they've never directly hurt any woman themselves. Maybe they are horrified he has. But the casual use of that disgusting nickname, especially in his role as a police officer, by not one but a GROUP of colleagues shows how casual the attitude towards women being sexually assaulted and raped is doesn't it?

Limejuiceandrum · 30/09/2021 21:59

@ColorMagicBarbie
Stats for that?

Concestor · 30/09/2021 21:59

Are you really fucking NAMALTing on today of all days? Fucking hell.

OddSockReunion · 30/09/2021 22:01

@DismantledKing

This isn’t really the time for NAMALT

Exactly. An awful thing to say today of all days.

Pallisers · 30/09/2021 22:01

I think of misogyny as being very similar to that theory of health and safety that represents a pyramid with high-occurrence, low-impact risks at the bottom and rare catastrophes at the top. Idea being that you create a culture of safety by taking extremely seriously and reducing the number of things at the bottom of the pyramid in order to eliminate as far as possible the things higher up. You make it so that it is simply unthinkable to tolerate unsafe conditions.

We need to stop seeing these murders as isolated incidents carried out by people who are intrinsically outside the norms of society. We are all swimming in a sea of misogyny - at the bottom it’s thoughtless jokes and micro aggressions and then it feeds up to people who act on that all the way up to murder.

I just wanted to re-post this also as it is SO worth reading. It expressed exactly what I think. The supermarket I go to tracks and puts up a poster of H&S incidents -celebrating continuous days of zero. My company did the same with qa/qc issues. Why is it so hard to simply adopt a zero tolerance approach to misogyny and sex-based "banter"? Because those in control don't see it as anything worth sorting out.

My dh is one of the good ones too. he would actually call out crap in a pub etc - but more likely he wouldn't be there in the first place. But even he sees that him being half-way decent doesn't solve the problem. it is systemic.

How has the Met chief not resigned? how?

FourTeaFallOut · 30/09/2021 22:02

Does that mean women can't be trusted with babies?

Do you see women making baby killing jokes? Do women have catalogues of child abuse on their hard drives? Do they sit around with their mates silently ignoring a host of red flags that they are about to harm a baby?

imnotacelebritygetmeoutofhere · 30/09/2021 22:07

Do you think the Everard family are thinking "I know Sarah was raped and killed but my husband/brother/neighbour aren't like that".

Yes, I imagine they are thinking exactly that today, after their husband/father stood in court reading his impact statement.
I'm with you OP. I have some great men in my life and I appreciate them all the more when things like this are going on.